Why do theists come to this forum?
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09-02-2016, 10:47 PM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
Pops making unsubstantiated claims?!

I'm shocked!

Killin em with feels. Seriously that's all you got. Apparently you're life was a roller coaster ride of anger and uncontrolled emotions, so you created in your mind a calming, unworldly event that "changed" you lest your uncontrolled behavior place you in prison or dead.

I myself struggled mightily with rage issues when younger and required no manifestation of greater purpose to tell myself to chill the fuck out and enjoy life before it's gone or I make it a miserable one.

The great connections you add together inside your purposely deluded mind are not evidence or proof. Write a fantasy novel as an outlet for you feels and pedal your woo to paying customers who share the same need for greater purpose.

Meanwhile take your pompous bullshit elsewhere and leave reality, logic and reason to the adults who can manage it without the supernatural crutch.
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10-02-2016, 03:18 AM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(09-02-2016 09:05 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(09-02-2016 11:24 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  What do you mean by "cosmic accident"?

It's his way of denigrating naturalism. And he refuses to admit it.

I was just curious, if he was referring to the old argument of "so improbable that its nearly impossible that life has formed spontaneously". I found a nice piece of information regarding this.
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10-02-2016, 06:45 AM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(09-02-2016 10:48 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  . I don’t attempt to parse out which stimulus classifies under Chas’s category of evidence, and which doesn’t. Because to me all of it classifies, that everything that leads me to believe this or that, is evidence.

You are using the term evidence to give validation and weight to your beliefs. However, if anything and everything counts as evidence of equal weight, then the term evidence is useless.

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Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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10-02-2016, 06:58 AM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(09-02-2016 10:47 PM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  Pops making unsubstantiated claims?!

I'm shocked!

Killin em with feels. Seriously that's all you got. Apparently you're life was a roller coaster ride of anger and uncontrolled emotions, so you created in your mind a calming, unworldly event that "changed" you lest your uncontrolled behavior place you in prison or dead.

I myself struggled mightily with rage issues when younger and required no manifestation of greater purpose to tell myself to chill the fuck out and enjoy life before it's gone or I make it a miserable one.

The great connections you add together inside your purposely deluded mind are not evidence or proof. Write a fantasy novel as an outlet for you feels and pedal your woo to paying customers who share the same need for greater purpose.

Meanwhile take your pompous bullshit elsewhere and leave reality, logic and reason to the adults who can manage it without the supernatural crutch.
That was overly harsh. I do write in short spurts, but would never sell it in any way are accept any compensation for them.

You really shouldn't assume such things, or anything for that matter. I am rational and logical.

As stated numerous times. I was already changing to the best of my ability, and wasn't violent really violent in the first place. I didn't even have a problem with my disposition at the time of my salvation.

There is no need to be a dick. One can disagree without being degrading, or assuming.
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10-02-2016, 07:02 AM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(10-02-2016 03:18 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  
(09-02-2016 09:05 PM)Chas Wrote:  It's his way of denigrating naturalism. And he refuses to admit it.

I was just curious, if he was referring to the old argument of "so improbable that its nearly impossible that life has formed spontaneously". I found a nice piece of information regarding this.
Rationally, the grand scope of the observable universe in itself is reason enough for some to believe that spontanious formation of life over time is a no brainer. Thing is, the steps prior to or outaide the existence of these criteria are in no way self evident of spontaneity.
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10-02-2016, 07:40 AM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
Rational and logical? Yet you readily admit that you were convinced of your God by something that you can't show to us to be rational or logical.
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10-02-2016, 07:56 AM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(10-02-2016 07:02 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Thing is, the steps prior to or outaide the existence of these criteria are in no way self evident of spontaneity.

We have no knowledge of any "steps prior to or out[s]ide" (we do not even know of "prior to" or "outside" are even meaningful in this context) so the only rational position is to admit that we do not know.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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10-02-2016, 08:08 AM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(09-02-2016 09:22 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I came here to discuss the possibility/ probability of a singular creative force.

In order to discuss possibility beyond a vacuous "we can't prove it isn't true" you would need evidence for it.

In order to discuss probability you need a way to rate the various possible options and that would require at least a detailed definition of what this force is and how it operates.

In short, there is no way to discuss possibility or probability given what we currently know.

Quote:And yes, I do feel like I am at least putting forth some effort towards understanding and unity with hopes of betterment of existence for future generations through worldwide peace. I think I am supposed to be here to some extent. Not necessarily to help others, but perhaps to strengthen my own resolve and/ or test it.

That is all pure, unadulterated woo. The goal you espouse may be worthwhile but you provide nothing at all of substance to explain how it can be achieved. Saying you are "supposed to be here" is meaningless without defining what arranged that and how you can demonstrate the truth of the claim.

Quote:I think that individuals with a rational, logical, mindset that can also understand that there is at least a dormant possibility for inherent good in man could be quite a commodity to bringing about unity and prosperity.

You have not yet demonstrated that you have a rational or logical mindset. In fact, the general impression is that you are mired in delusional thinking.

Quote:That's a start anyway.

It really isn't.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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10-02-2016, 08:26 AM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
Rationality is not a derogatory term. At least it should not be.

I'm looking out my window and I see snow. That's visual evidence. I can go outside, examine it closer, and see/touch/taste/smell the snow. But my senses can be fooled, by things like optical illusions, mental delusions, my prejudices and preconceptions, etc. So I call a couple of friends or coworkers. We all go outside and experience the snow. We compare our perceptions of it and verify or disprove them. So I experienced something, that others can verify.

I can take pictures and video of the snow. I can try to take samples. I can measure the temperature, air humidity, wind chill, make a scientific examination of the phenomena and most importantly, have others do the same. We all record this information and preserve it.

When the snow melts and is gone we will have evidence that will remain and support our accounts.

I can go further, if I am curious enough. I can try to predict when the snow will return. I can study weather and meteorology, use computers and weather satellites, measure and record data on my own. Eventually, I will understand what causes snow, what snow is and when or if, it will return.

That is the use of evidence, rationality and naturalism.

Religion would have us:
Experience the snow.
Pray to their gods for more or less snow.
Murder some virgins or foreigners to ward off/summon snow.
Pray some more.
Burn some heretics who are using science to study snow
Split into pro-snow and anti-snow sects.
Start a massive holy war and slaughter tens of thousands of innocents.
Conduct inquisitions and torture unbelievers.
Keep praying.
Keep freezing to death and starving because they don't understand weather patterns, temperature, etc.
Discover a new snow god and start the whole process over again...

If we want to be really progressive, the pro- and anti- snow sects can write holy texts propounding their beliefs. Then they can start fighting amongst themselves as well as outsiders, over proper beliefs.

And they tell us rationality is bad...

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Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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10-02-2016, 08:37 AM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(10-02-2016 07:40 AM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  Rational and logical? Yet you readily admit that you were convinced of your God by something that you can't show to us to be rational or logical.
That doesn't mean I threw out rational thought or logic though.
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