Why do theists come to this forum?
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11-02-2016, 02:19 PM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(11-02-2016 02:13 PM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  
(11-02-2016 02:08 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  What a load of shit. All existence is intertwined, even if you can't grasp quantum mechanics or sub atomic particles. Which admittedly I have a very limited understanding of.

How did you deduce such from my statements?

You do not even need to be able to spell quantum to get it and I didn't even mention existence. Read what I wrote, dumbass. What you wrote gives the impression that you fail to understand terminology. My statement was merely to convey that a law can lead to a theory and vice versa. I am well aware that you posses a remedial understanding of science.
I read it. You said I seem to have a black and white understanding of things and that I must not think things are connected.

Quite the opposite. All is connected on many levels.

I don't know why people assume faithful people see all as opposites. I am hee talking to atheist and saying that all are equal, and not opposites at all but seem to have carried perceptions. Black and white are actually the same. All colors of the spectrum can be divided from white light.

All colors added or mixed together turn black. The absence of light causes all to seem black.
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11-02-2016, 02:29 PM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(11-02-2016 02:19 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I read it. You said I seem to have a black and white understanding of things and that I must not think things are connected.

Glad you read it. So you then see how I was merely making a point that laws can derive theories and theories can derive laws and making no other statement regarding existence.

(11-02-2016 02:19 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I don't know why people assume faithful people see all as opposites. I am hee talking to atheist and saying that all are equal, and not opposites at all but seem to have carried perceptions.

The problem as I see it is that in my experience, the faithful lack a fundamental understanding of causation and correlation.

(11-02-2016 02:19 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Black and white are actually the same. All colors of the spectrum can be divided from white light.

All colors added or mixed together turn black. The absence of light causes all to seem black.

Black and white are not the same. I hope you are aware that your analogy only applies to visible light which is a very small part of the electromagnetic spectrum. Also, what are getting at here? This is a bit of a non sequitur.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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11-02-2016, 02:32 PM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(11-02-2016 01:18 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Matter and energy were created in the Big Bang OR existed in a pre-incarnate (pun intended) form inside the singularity of the Big Bang.
The logical deductive conclusion: Matter and energy are eternal or an outside catalyst created them in the early moments of the universe. Which would you postulate is the correct choice and why?

WLC at his worst: Taking every day intuitions and applying them to an environment where the laws of nature as we know them break down, or applying them at a level where we know nature works anything but intuitive.

  1. An omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent entity that condones slavery, doesnt want us to wear mixed fabric or eat shellfish, marry our rape victims, stone our disobeying kids and is particularly interested in all other aspects of our sex lives?
    Is that roughly what you had in mind?
  2. Because........i am an ignorant and/or dishonest piece of $hit?

Pro tip: once the structure of space-time breaks down when we go back in time, the term "pre" must lead to wrong hypotheses. "Creation" also becomes a meaningless term at exactly the same moment in (space)time. "Eternal" also stops making sense...as well as "outside". Doesnt leave much possible sense left in this "logical deductive conclusion" (ok, "matter" and "energy" may still make sense, i dunno).
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11-02-2016, 02:47 PM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(11-02-2016 02:29 PM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  
(11-02-2016 02:19 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I read it. You said I seem to have a black and white understanding of things and that I must not think things are connected.

Glad you read it. So you then see how I was merely making a point that laws can derive theories and theories can derive laws and making no other statement regarding existence.

(11-02-2016 02:19 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I don't know why people assume faithful people see all as opposites. I am hee talking to atheist and saying that all are equal, and not opposites at all but seem to have carried perceptions.

The problem as I see it is that in my experience, the faithful lack a fundamental understanding of causation and correlation.

(11-02-2016 02:19 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Black and white are actually the same. All colors of the spectrum can be divided from white light.

All colors added or mixed together turn black. The absence of light causes all to seem black.

Black and white are not the same. I hope you are aware that your analogy only applies to visible light which is a very small part of the electromagnetic spectrum. Also, what are getting at here? This is a bit of a non sequitur.
No real point other than all things are connected.

I suppose laws could derive from theories but then that would just make them additional theories and not laws. That's just opinion though I guess.
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11-02-2016, 03:00 PM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(11-02-2016 02:47 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I suppose laws could derive from theories but then that would just make them additional theories and not laws.

No, it would make them laws. Theories explain known laws and provide the framework for identifying new laws and extensions or modifications to existing laws as well as new and revised theories. The laws that are discovered support the theories or provide data for extending and refining the theories.

Quote:That's just opinion though I guess.

It does once again confirm that you do not understand what a law is or what a theory is or how they relate to each other.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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11-02-2016, 03:19 PM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(11-02-2016 03:00 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(11-02-2016 02:47 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I suppose laws could derive from theories but then that would just make them additional theories and not laws.

No, it would make them laws. Theories explain known laws and provide the framework for identifying new laws and extensions or modifications to existing laws as well as new and revised theories. The laws that are discovered support the theories or provide data for extending and refining the theories.

Quote:That's just opinion though I guess.

It does once again confirm that you do not understand what a law is or what a theory is or how they relate to each other.
If the two are interchangeable then why not just call them all theories?

Serious question.

Also, it's kind of difficult to learn when constantly ridiculed. I have stated that I can learn and that I am in no way a scientist or versed in specific terminologies so why continue being negative. I'm actually open to learn of what I don't know, but that openness is stifled by repeated negativity.
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11-02-2016, 03:22 PM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(11-02-2016 01:47 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  en.wikipedia.org

Coulomb's law, orCoulomb's inverse-squarelaw, is a law of physics describing the electrostatic interaction between electrically charged particles. The lawwas first published in 1785 by French physicist Charles Augustin deCoulomb and was essential to the development of the theory of electromagnetism.

Seems like the law was used to develop the THEORY.

Nope it wasnt. I will simplify a bit now, to make it clear:
It was used to.....expand an existing theory, the theory of electrostatic forces by relating it to magnetism, into what is now called the "electromagnetic force" = It was used as a base to create an even more encompassing new theory (with its according new, more encompassing laws).

In the 18th century it was discovered that electrically charged particles (at rest !) create forces on eath other. -> Coulombs theory of electrostatic forces and his law
At his time it was thought that this is not related to the phenomena of magnetism.

Later, in the 19th century however it was discovered that moving charged particles create magnetic forces (or changing magnetic fields apply forces on charged particles). In other words: electrostatics are related to magnetism and are both different "faces" of the same fundamental force.

What you missed in your wiki quote was: It describes electrostatic interaction (being part of this theory) but was used to develop electromagnetism (the new theory).
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11-02-2016, 03:27 PM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(11-02-2016 03:19 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Also, it's kind of difficult to learn when constantly ridiculed. I have stated that I can learn and that I am in no way a scientist or versed in specific terminologies so why continue being negative. I'm actually open to learn of what I don't know, but that openness is stifled by repeated negativity.

You get ridiculed, friendo, because you make these big pronouncements about how stupid science is because it's all just theories and guesses and *just the same* as religion, just different guesses, and when you get called on it you get butthurt.

If you are aware of how much you suck at science, why do you have such sage advice for scientists about how they should use their terminology?

The way it works is *first* you STFU and learn, and *then* when you actually know what the fuck you're talking about, and with you I will require an external source to certify that because you have proven that you have no ability to judge your own expertise, only *then* should you open your big mouth and start making pronouncements about what science is or is not and so forth.

Savvy?

In other words, *get a science education* if you want to be taken seriously. Making daft pronouncements and admitting in the very next breath that you don't know WTF you're talking about hardly helps your cause, whatever your cause is (do you yourself even know?). It doesn't matter how you get it, there are plenty of free online courses for example where you could take first year physics for *free*, there is wikipedia, there are plenty of books available.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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11-02-2016, 03:40 PM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(11-02-2016 03:19 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(11-02-2016 03:00 PM)unfogged Wrote:  No, it would make them laws. Theories explain known laws and provide the framework for identifying new laws and extensions or modifications to existing laws as well as new and revised theories. The laws that are discovered support the theories or provide data for extending and refining the theories.


It does once again confirm that you do not understand what a law is or what a theory is or how they relate to each other.
If the two are interchangeable then why not just call them all theories?

They are not interchangeable, though. Several people have tried to explain the difference. I will try again. A scientific law is simply a description of how things have been observed to behave. A scientific theory is a larger structure that explains why the laws work the way they do, or ties laws and other facts together in a "body of knowledge".

Quote:Also, it's kind of difficult to learn when constantly ridiculed. I have stated that I can learn and that I am in no way a scientist or versed in specific terminologies so why continue being negative. I'm actually open to learn of what I don't know, but that openness is stifled by repeated negativity.

We have had so many malicious trolls here that many of us instinctively treat theists badly. I agree that it is wrong to do this as a general rule, and I try to resist the temptation (not always successfully).
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11-02-2016, 03:41 PM (This post was last modified: 11-02-2016 03:46 PM by Deesse23.)
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
Quote:Black and white are actually the same. All colors of the spectrum can be divided from white light.

All colors added or mixed together turn black. The absence of light causes all to seem black.

You are mixing up things again.

Black and white are actually the same: wrong
All colors of the spectrum can be divided from white light: correct
All colors added or mixed together turn black: only correct in relation to certain paint colours
The absence of light causes all to seem black: correct (erm....not sure...dunno Blush )

The difference between splitting white light with a prism and paint colors is:
Red light emits the colour "red" (duh)
Red paint absorbs everything but red.

Paint colors
Quote:Now suppose that we daub a blob of red paint onto a piece of white paper. The plain paper starts off white because it reflects all the ‘colours of the rainbow’. The paint blob we add looks red because it is actually absorbing all the blue and the green light, leaving only the red light to be reflected toward our eyes. Similarly a daub of blue paint on the paper will absorb the red and green light, reflecting just the blue on to our eyes. This is called subtractive colouring

So what happens if we paint the red over the blue? Well, the red pigment absorbs the blue light and the green light. The blue absorbs red and green and so, between the two of them the two pigments account for all the light, leaving none to be reflected on to our eyes. Result: no light is reflected, and the patch looks black.
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