Why do theists come to this forum?
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11-02-2016, 03:43 PM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(11-02-2016 03:27 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(11-02-2016 03:19 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Also, it's kind of difficult to learn when constantly ridiculed. I have stated that I can learn and that I am in no way a scientist or versed in specific terminologies so why continue being negative. I'm actually open to learn of what I don't know, but that openness is stifled by repeated negativity.

You get ridiculed, friendo, because you make these big pronouncements about how stupid science is because it's all just theories and guesses and *just the same* as religion, just different guesses, and when you get called on it you get butthurt.

If you are aware of how much you suck at science, why do you have such sage advice for scientists about how they should use their terminology?

The way it works is *first* you STFU and learn, and *then* when you actually know what the fuck you're talking about, and with you I will require an external source to certify that because you have proven that you have no ability to judge your own expertise, only *then* should you open your big mouth and start making pronouncements about what science is or is not and so forth.

Savvy?

In other words, *get a science education* if you want to be taken seriously. Making daft pronouncements and admitting in the very next breath that you don't know WTF you're talking about hardly helps your cause, whatever your cause is (do you yourself even know?). It doesn't matter how you get it, there are plenty of free online courses for example where you could take first year physics for *free*, there is wikipedia, there are plenty of books available.
Woe man, friendo is my word.

Other than that, just because I am a layman doesn't mean I'm completely ignorant. And just because a scientific law can be modified based on new findings doesn't mean it didn't come before the theory. Sure a law can change, but that just means it wasn't really a law to begin with but more of a theory. This is getting quite redundant, and is boring. Not to mention it has shit to do with the op.
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11-02-2016, 03:45 PM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
It's been two days and it seems now that somehow a scientific law is nearly synonymous to with a scientific theory. I'm done. I accept defeat on this topic, though I'm still slightly confused.

Peace
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11-02-2016, 03:49 PM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(11-02-2016 03:40 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(11-02-2016 03:19 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  If the two are interchangeable then why not just call them all theories?

They are not interchangeable, though. Several people have tried to explain the difference. I will try again. A scientific law is simply a description of how things have been observed to behave. A scientific theory is a larger structure that explains why the laws work the way they do, or ties laws and other facts together in a "body of knowledge".

Quote:Also, it's kind of difficult to learn when constantly ridiculed. I have stated that I can learn and that I am in no way a scientist or versed in specific terminologies so why continue being negative. I'm actually open to learn of what I don't know, but that openness is stifled by repeated negativity.

We have had so many malicious trolls here that many of us instinctively treat theists badly. I agree that it is wrong to do this as a general rule, and I try to resist the temptation (not always successfully).
Thank you, as that was the most strait forward, easy to comprehend explanation I have heard thus far.

I admire your efforts in mutual respect as well.

Peace
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11-02-2016, 04:03 PM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
Quote:And just because a scientific law can be modified based on new findings doesn't mean it didn't come before the theory. Sure a law can change, but that just means it wasn't really a law to begin with but more of a theory.

Coulombs law was always valid and unchanged.
The theory of electrostatics was *pimped* into electromagnetism.
If a -once supposed to be valid- law would have to be "downgraded", it would be a (now proven to be wrong/falsified) hypothesis.....roughly speaking.
You just went back to your original confusion that "law is bigger than theory"

Now before you go to bed, say ten times: "law is part of theory and theory is bigger than hypothesis".
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11-02-2016, 05:15 PM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(11-02-2016 03:43 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  And just because a scientific law can be modified based on new findings doesn't mean it didn't come before the theory.

Except when we discovered the law by examining the consequences of a theory. Theories explain existing laws and can help identify previously unknown ones.

Quote:Sure a law can change, but that just means it wasn't really a law to begin with but more of a theory.

You seem to think that a law is some kind of absolute truth. The term is used to describe some consistent observation. That's it. Scientific laws are man-made descriptions of what happens and, as such, they can be incomplete or misleading.

At one point there was a "law" regarding conservation of energy. Later evidence showed that it would be better as a conservation of mass-energy. The old "law" was not wrong for the conditions it described but the newer law covered more extreme conditions. A scientific law is simply our best description of what we have consistently observed. If it later turns out to be only an approximation then that means science has advanced.

Theories exist to explain why those laws hold. Considering the implications of a theory leads to ideas for new experimentation to find conflicting evidence or to find things we had not suspected before. That process identifies new laws which spur more theories.

Laws address what, when, and which. Theories address how and why.

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11-02-2016, 05:16 PM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(11-02-2016 05:15 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(11-02-2016 03:43 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  And just because a scientific law can be modified based on new findings doesn't mean it didn't come before the theory.

Except when we discovered the law by examining the consequences of a theory. Theories explain existing laws and can help identify previously unknown ones.

Quote:Sure a law can change, but that just means it wasn't really a law to begin with but more of a theory.

You seem to think that a law is some kind of absolute truth. The term is used to describe some consistent observation. That's it. Scientific laws are man-made descriptions of what happens and, as such, they can be incomplete or misleading.

At one point there was a "law" regarding conservation of energy. Later evidence showed that it would be better as a conservation of mass-energy. The old "law" was not wrong for the conditions it described but the newer law covered more extreme conditions. A scientific law is simply our best description of what we have consistently observed. If it later turns out to be only an approximation then that means science has advanced.

Theories exist to explain why those laws hold. Considering the implications of a theory leads to ideas for new experimentation to find conflicting evidence or to find things we had not suspected before. That process identifies new laws which spur more theories.

Laws address what, when, and which. Theories address how and why.
Thanks.
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11-02-2016, 05:20 PM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
Maybe they're here for the root beer and fries.

Don't let those gnomes and their illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions.

--Jake the Dog, Adventure Time

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11-02-2016, 06:05 PM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(11-02-2016 11:58 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(11-02-2016 11:56 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Not that odd. It just depends on the period of his manic depression cycle.

I find your ideas intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

You can find it at notquiterightinthehead.org. Yes

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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11-02-2016, 06:11 PM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(11-02-2016 02:19 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Black and white are actually the same.

No, they are not. White light is a mixture of wavelengths while black is the absence of light.

Quote:All colors of the spectrum can be divided from white light.

OK.

Quote:All colors added or mixed together turn black.

That is sort of true for pigments but utterly untrue for light.

Quote:The absence of light causes all to seem black.

Well, sure.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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11-02-2016, 06:29 PM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(11-02-2016 06:11 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(11-02-2016 02:19 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Black and white are actually the same.

No, they are not. White light is a mixture of wavelengths while black is the absence of light.

Quote:All colors of the spectrum can be divided from white light.

OK.

Quote:All colors added or mixed together turn black.

That is sort of true for pigments but utterly untrue for light.

Quote:The absence of light causes all to seem black.

Well, sure.
I didn't mean they were literally exactly the same but that both contain. The full spectrum of color and in that regard saying that someone is viewings things as if all is black and white could mean anything.

Not that I don't understand the term, was just being difficult I guess, and have a good grasp on color and art.
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