Why do theists come to this forum?
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12-02-2016, 05:33 PM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(12-02-2016 05:21 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(12-02-2016 05:03 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  Why would a perfect being be bound by the rules of the observable universe?

Because that's the context "perfect" is being applied to. And Laplace's demon only considers classical physics. It is as feckless as the rest of us when it comes to quantum physics.

Wouldn't true perfection not be bound by any rules at all?

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12-02-2016, 06:05 PM (This post was last modified: 12-02-2016 06:13 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(12-02-2016 05:33 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  
(12-02-2016 05:21 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Because that's the context "perfect" is being applied to. And Laplace's demon only considers classical physics. It is as feckless as the rest of us when it comes to quantum physics.

Wouldn't true perfection not be bound by any rules at all?

What you are pointing out indirectly is that "perfection" must be grounded in a context or as you've pointed out it is ineffable.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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12-02-2016, 06:16 PM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(12-02-2016 06:05 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(12-02-2016 05:33 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  Wouldn't true perfection not be bound by any rules at all?

What you are pointing out indirectly is that "perfection" must be grounded in a context or as you've pointed out it is ineffable.

We're kind of getting off topic here, but yes, for a perfect being to be truly perfect, it would have to be ineffable, therefore, jumping to a particular religion's holy book is pointless as the beings purported are not shown as ineffable. Angel

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12-02-2016, 06:19 PM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
Diddo - you are blue again! Thumbsup

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See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat
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12-02-2016, 06:22 PM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(12-02-2016 06:16 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  
(12-02-2016 06:05 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  What you are pointing out indirectly is that "perfection" must be grounded in a context or as you've pointed out it is ineffable.

We're kind of getting off topic here, but yes, for a perfect being to be truly perfect, it would have to be ineffable, therefore, jumping to a particular religion's holy book is pointless as the beings purported are not shown as ineffable. Angel
They are described within the abilities and limits of the human mind.
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12-02-2016, 06:24 PM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(12-02-2016 06:22 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(12-02-2016 06:16 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  We're kind of getting off topic here, but yes, for a perfect being to be truly perfect, it would have to be ineffable, therefore, jumping to a particular religion's holy book is pointless as the beings purported are not shown as ineffable. Angel
They are described within the abilities and limits of the human mind.

Are you suggesting that all holy books have some truth to them, or just the Bible?

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12-02-2016, 06:33 PM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(12-02-2016 06:16 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  
(12-02-2016 06:05 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  What you are pointing out indirectly is that "perfection" must be grounded in a context or as you've pointed out it is ineffable.

We're kind of getting off topic here, but yes, for a perfect being to be truly perfect, it would have to be ineffable, therefore, jumping to a particular religion's holy book is pointless as the beings purported are not shown as ineffable. Angel

I'm not an expert on Buddhism but there are a few on this forum. My understanding of the Buddhist state of nirvana is that it is ineffable and the koans are used to realize and fully appreciate and internalize the ineffability. ... or not.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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12-02-2016, 06:35 PM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(12-02-2016 06:24 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  
(12-02-2016 06:22 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  They are described within the abilities and limits of the human mind.

Are you suggesting that all holy books have some truth to them, or just the Bible?

"Every religion is true one way or another. It is true when understood metaphorically. But when it gets stuck in its own metaphors, interpreting them as facts, then you are in trouble." - Joseph Campbell

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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12-02-2016, 07:20 PM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(12-02-2016 05:01 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(12-02-2016 04:54 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  I was posting here because I was having a mental breakdown. I did not understand why everyone was denying the apparent obvious truth. Well, now I understand; it does not identify a particular instance of a monotheistic deity. It only identifies a perfect being, of which it would be pointless to talk about; I don't see a way to obtain information about a truly perfect being.

"Perfect" requires a context. Laplace and others have considered what a perfect being would be like in the context of a deterministic universe. Curiously Laplace called it a demon.

We should have him meet up with Maxwell's Demon...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxwell's_demon

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12-02-2016, 07:28 PM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(12-02-2016 06:24 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  
(12-02-2016 06:22 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  They are described within the abilities and limits of the human mind.

Are you suggesting that all holy books have some truth to them, or just the Bible?
Most definitely all ancient core scriptures and even some that aren't exactly ancient have truth within their pages. All I have read All speak of the same thing; just in separate ways due to individual culture and time.

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