Why do theists come to this forum?
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12-02-2016, 09:18 PM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(12-02-2016 08:54 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(12-02-2016 08:42 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  No, I don't mean those promoting physical death or sacrifice of anything or one other than self.
Such things are specifically spoken against, in the New Covenant, and other scriptures, and a people was punished for the misdirection they knowingly ultimately caused. The Torah is profitable as well, all of it is, just some parts are more lessons, and not exactly direction to go, but what to keep from. One of the biggest problems with people's interpretations of the Torah are that they look at all in a literal sense. It's all parables, riddles, triple, and double entendres, so looking at it literally doesn't really do it justice, at all.

Peace

But their *god* specifially did the smiting, in many cases, AND supposedly, it's ALL *his word*. The "New Covenant" is bullshit. Jesus said : Matthew 5:18 "For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." Jesus never said he was making a "new covenant". Christians made up that shit. So, I see you DO feel you get to cherry-pick the parts you like, and drop the rest. If your god is "unchanging", his morality must not change.

BTW, you have not answered the question. Paul himself said "women must be silent" according to the law''. What's "new covenant" about that ? Even Paul cherry-picked his stuff.

What is the STANDARD, by which you cherry-pick ?
I'm not cherry picking. Men killing other men was never a law.
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12-02-2016, 09:22 PM (This post was last modified: 12-02-2016 09:28 PM by popsthebuilder.)
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(12-02-2016 08:58 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(12-02-2016 08:28 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  The bible is special, yes. I think all core scripture of an ultimately peaceable nature that ultimately refer to the One Creator GOD as the source of existence as we know it, regardless of the cultures references or names for the GOD are special to and for each culture or people, and for others.

Sentimental drivel. The Quran says to kill non-believers. The god of the OT told "his people" to murder innocent women and children. Your statement is demonstrably false. You have your head in the sand, and obviously never read the OT.
Again, murder was never part of the law conveyed by Moses.

Also the Qur'an teaches mercy ultimately and the term non believer is in reference to those who know the way yet willingly go against it and lead others away from it. And even then, with those it says to have mercy as God is merciful, and that justice will be given all equally for their works, ultimately by GOD.

Oh yeah; the Old Testament was the first one I read.

And the New Covenant wasn't a change or abolishment of the law, but a different way to understand and use it.
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12-02-2016, 10:36 PM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(12-02-2016 09:22 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(12-02-2016 08:58 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Sentimental drivel. The Quran says to kill non-believers. The god of the OT told "his people" to murder innocent women and children. Your statement is demonstrably false. You have your head in the sand, and obviously never read the OT.
Again, murder was never part of the law conveyed by Moses.

Also the Qur'an teaches mercy ultimately and the term non believer is in reference to those who know the way yet willingly go against it and lead others away from it. And even then, with those it says to have mercy as God is merciful, and that justice will be given all equally for their works, ultimately by GOD.

Oh yeah; the Old Testament was the first one I read.

And the New Covenant wasn't a change or abolishment of the law, but a different way to understand and use it.

Why a new Covenant? Why a new way to understand it? Was the old way wrong or broken? This god guy wasn't very good at communication or something? All moot until someone give some actual evidence of his existence in the first place.
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12-02-2016, 10:51 PM (This post was last modified: 13-02-2016 12:00 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(12-02-2016 09:18 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(12-02-2016 08:54 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  But their *god* specifially did the smiting, in many cases, AND supposedly, it's ALL *his word*. The "New Covenant" is bullshit. Jesus said : Matthew 5:18 "For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." Jesus never said he was making a "new covenant". Christians made up that shit. So, I see you DO feel you get to cherry-pick the parts you like, and drop the rest. If your god is "unchanging", his morality must not change.

BTW, you have not answered the question. Paul himself said "women must be silent" according to the law''. What's "new covenant" about that ? Even Paul cherry-picked his stuff.

What is the STANDARD, by which you cherry-pick ?
I'm not cherry picking. Men killing other men was never a law.

You are cherry picking. No one ever said anything about a "law". Nice try, pop. You fail again. Your god ordered the killing of many Innocent people.
So the commands of your evil violent deity are not a "law" ?

1 Samuel 15:2-3, "God commanded Saul and the Israelites, “This is what the LORD Almighty says: 'I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.'" God ordered similar things when the Israelites were invading the promised land (Deuteronomy 2:34; 3:6; 20:16-18).

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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13-02-2016, 02:07 AM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(12-02-2016 10:36 PM)xieulong Wrote:  
(12-02-2016 09:22 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Again, murder was never part of the law conveyed by Moses.

Also the Qur'an teaches mercy ultimately and the term non believer is in reference to those who know the way yet willingly go against it and lead others away from it. And even then, with those it says to have mercy as God is merciful, and that justice will be given all equally for their works, ultimately by GOD.

Oh yeah; the Old Testament was the first one I read.

And the New Covenant wasn't a change or abolishment of the law, but a different way to understand and use it.

Why a new Covenant? Why a new way to understand it? Was the old way wrong or broken? This god guy wasn't very good at communication or something? All moot until someone give some actual evidence of his existence in the first place.

2000yrs ago god proved his existence by causing phenomena that defies current scientific understanding..... that fits in perfectly with every other work of fiction humans have cooked up over the millennia

recently god proves his existence by appearing on cheese sandwiches, bathroom doors, dirty old piece of cloth, and a dogs butt.... which fits in as the result of physiological tendencies and Photoshop
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13-02-2016, 05:52 AM (This post was last modified: 13-02-2016 06:43 AM by julep.)
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(13-02-2016 02:07 AM)Ace Wrote:  
(12-02-2016 10:36 PM)xieulong Wrote:  Why a new Covenant? Why a new way to understand it? Was the old way wrong or broken? This god guy wasn't very good at communication or something? All moot until someone give some actual evidence of his existence in the first place.

2000yrs ago god proved his existence by causing phenomena that defies current scientific understanding..... that fits in perfectly with every other work of fiction humans have cooked up over the millennia

recently god proves his existence by appearing on cheese sandwiches, bathroom doors, dirty old piece of cloth, and a dogs butt.... which fits in as the result of physiological tendencies and Photoshop

Good ones! Laugh out load

I'd add: God also proves His existence by talking to people. Interestingly, He talks to the same people now as he did 2000 years ago: crazies and "leaders" (whether they be coaches, pastors, or generals).

God's messages have been much more consistent than His miracles: "win this one for Me" (no matter who you have to kill in the process) and "don't forget to tip your pastor."
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13-02-2016, 06:47 AM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(12-02-2016 08:28 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Sorry, it's probably hard to read and harder to comprehend.

Vacuous woo always is

(12-02-2016 09:22 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Again, murder was never part of the law conveyed by Moses.

Laws of the Old Testament which demand the death penalty

Apologists will say that these were punishments and therefore not murder but many are in response to trivial offenses. Death was demanded over and over for many things throughout the law conveyed by Moses.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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13-02-2016, 07:25 AM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(12-02-2016 06:33 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(12-02-2016 06:16 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  We're kind of getting off topic here, but yes, for a perfect being to be truly perfect, it would have to be ineffable, therefore, jumping to a particular religion's holy book is pointless as the beings purported are not shown as ineffable. Angel

I'm not an expert on Buddhism but there are a few on this forum. My understanding of the Buddhist state of nirvana is that it is ineffable and the koans are used to realize and fully appreciate and internalize the ineffability. ... or not.

I believe that is only in Zen Buddhism, not the other flavors. Consider

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13-02-2016, 07:33 AM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(12-02-2016 10:36 PM)xieulong Wrote:  
(12-02-2016 09:22 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Again, murder was never part of the law conveyed by Moses.

Also the Qur'an teaches mercy ultimately and the term non believer is in reference to those who know the way yet willingly go against it and lead others away from it. And even then, with those it says to have mercy as God is merciful, and that justice will be given all equally for their works, ultimately by GOD.

Oh yeah; the Old Testament was the first one I read.

And the New Covenant wasn't a change or abolishment of the law, but a different way to understand and use it.

Why a new Covenant? Why a new way to understand it? Was the old way wrong or broken? This god guy wasn't very good at communication or something? All moot until someone give some actual evidence of his existence in the first place.
Yes the Torah was misinterpreted in ways and God's people we're lead astray and leading others astray.
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13-02-2016, 07:35 AM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(12-02-2016 10:51 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(12-02-2016 09:18 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I'm not cherry picking. Men killing other men was never a law.

You are cherry picking. No one ever said anything about a "law". Nice try, pop. You fail again. Your god ordered the killing of many Innocent people.
So the commands of your evil violent deity are not a "law" ?

1 Samuel 15:2-3, "God commanded Saul and the Israelites, “This is what the LORD Almighty says: 'I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.'" God ordered similar things when the Israelites were invading the promised land (Deuteronomy 2:34; 3:6; 20:16-18).
Still not part of the law of Moses and as far as I am concerned; a mis representation of the will of GOD.
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