Why do theists come to this forum?
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13-02-2016, 07:39 AM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(13-02-2016 06:47 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(12-02-2016 08:28 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Sorry, it's probably hard to read and harder to comprehend.

Vacuous woo always is

(12-02-2016 09:22 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Again, murder was never part of the law conveyed by Moses.

Laws of the Old Testament which demand the death penalty

Apologists will say that these were punishments and therefore not murder but many are in response to trivial offenses. Death was demanded over and over for many things throughout the law conveyed by Moses.
Regardless of what you think. Murder is not a command of the one creator GOD and never was. It is no law either. The ten commandments speak against killing. And that is the law given to Moses.
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13-02-2016, 07:42 AM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(13-02-2016 07:33 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(12-02-2016 10:36 PM)xieulong Wrote:  Why a new Covenant? Why a new way to understand it? Was the old way wrong or broken? This god guy wasn't very good at communication or something? All moot until someone give some actual evidence of his existence in the first place.
Yes the Torah was misinterpreted in ways and God's people we're lead astray and leading others astray.

Implying that you know the correct interpretation? Consider

How do you know that?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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13-02-2016, 07:43 AM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(13-02-2016 07:39 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(13-02-2016 06:47 AM)unfogged Wrote:  Vacuous woo always is


Laws of the Old Testament which demand the death penalty

Apologists will say that these were punishments and therefore not murder but many are in response to trivial offenses. Death was demanded over and over for many things throughout the law conveyed by Moses.
Regardless of what you think. Murder is not a command of the one creator GOD and never was. It is no law either. The ten commandments speak against killing. And that is the law given to Moses.

Except for all the times he commanded killing, that is. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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13-02-2016, 07:44 AM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(12-02-2016 08:42 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(12-02-2016 08:11 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Ya mean, like killing those who aren't members of the tribe ? Those "truths" ?
You have an external standard by which you cherry-pick your truths.
You never told us where you got that standard.

And Diddo, who told you, and by what process did you decide a perfect being was "ineffable" ? Who said that was perfection ? By what standard is that "perfect". Why is not the opposite "perfection" ? All you've done is asserted something, with NO support.
No, I don't mean those promoting physical death or sacrifice of anything or one other than self.
Such things are specifically spoken against, in the New Covenant, and other scriptures, and a people was punished for the misdirection they knowingly ultimately caused. The Torah is profitable as well, all of it is, just some parts are more lessons, and not exactly direction to go, but what to keep from. One of the biggest problems with people's interpretations of the Torah are that they look at all in a literal sense. It's all parables, riddles, triple, and double entendres, so looking at it literally doesn't really do it justice, at all.

Peace

Looking at it as if it amounts to any evidence of a godly entity doesn't do it justice at all either.

If you're aware it's parables & riddles what makes you think any of that was not merely thought up by various men throughout their ages without any actual connection to god? How does one conclude this wordplay was at all inspired by something or speaks truly about something?

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13-02-2016, 07:52 AM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(13-02-2016 07:43 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(13-02-2016 07:39 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Regardless of what you think. Murder is not a command of the one creator GOD and never was. It is no law either. The ten commandments speak against killing. And that is the law given to Moses.

Except for all the times he commanded killing, that is. Drinking Beverage
Just because there are instances recorded in the Torah where men were called upon to kill others in a time of war doesn't mean it is or even was ever law.
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13-02-2016, 07:55 AM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(13-02-2016 07:52 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(13-02-2016 07:43 AM)Chas Wrote:  Except for all the times he commanded killing, that is. Drinking Beverage
Just because there are instances recorded in the Torah where men were called upon to kill others in a time of war doesn't mean it is or even was ever law.

It wasn't just in war, nor were those wars just.

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13-02-2016, 07:59 AM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(13-02-2016 07:44 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(12-02-2016 08:42 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  No, I don't mean those promoting physical death or sacrifice of anything or one other than self.
Such things are specifically spoken against, in the New Covenant, and other scriptures, and a people was punished for the misdirection they knowingly ultimately caused. The Torah is profitable as well, all of it is, just some parts are more lessons, and not exactly direction to go, but what to keep from. One of the biggest problems with people's interpretations of the Torah are that they look at all in a literal sense. It's all parables, riddles, triple, and double entendres, so looking at it literally doesn't really do it justice, at all.

Peace

Looking at it as if it amounts to any evidence of a godly entity doesn't do it justice at all either.

If you're aware it's parables & riddles what makes you think any of that was not merely thought up by various men throughout their ages without any actual connection to god? How does one conclude this wordplay was at all inspired by something or speaks truly about something?
I don't deny that it was written by separate men with different levels of Faith and direction of GOD. In fact none have ever been wholly righteous into God but the Christ. Saying that men devoted their lives to the cause of GOD just for shits and giggles doesn't make sense. Why would they have done such? Surely some were motivated by greed, personal want, and pride, but that doesn't mean that they were not also inspired by GOD. I know they weren't just making things up for a few reasons, the least of which isn't the fact that I too have witnessed GOD on some level and did not make it up. What benefit go I gain here by seeming crazy? None. What reward do I get, what praise, what help? Where is my motive?
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13-02-2016, 08:00 AM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(13-02-2016 07:55 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(13-02-2016 07:52 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Just because there are instances recorded in the Torah where men were called upon to kill others in a time of war doesn't mean it is or even was ever law.

It wasn't just in war, nor were those wars just.
War usually isn't just, but at that time may have been needed that people in general could survive, learn, and grow from their lessons and mistakes.
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13-02-2016, 08:03 AM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(13-02-2016 07:35 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Still not part of the law of Moses

What do you consider to be "the law of Moses"? The book of Deuteronomy is basically Moses reciting a long list of laws. The "10 commandments" (no matter which set you choose) is only a small part of the whole.

Quote:and as far as I am concerned; a mis representation of the will of GOD.

By what criteria do you establish what is and is not the will of god? Are you calling yourself a prophet now?

(13-02-2016 07:39 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Regardless of what you think. Murder is not a command of the one creator GOD and never was. It is no law either. The ten commandments speak against killing. And that is the law given to Moses.

The commandment commonly translated as "thou shalt not kill" is probably better translated as "thou shalt not murder", especially since one of the first acts ordered by Moses after receiving one of the sets of 10 was to kill thousands of Hebrews for creating the golden calf. The rest of the law expounded by Moses contains numerous conditions under which people are to be killed. You do realize that there are over 600 laws passed on by Moses to the Hebrews, right? There are a few decent ones and a lot that are barbaric. Killing in the name of god is commanded throughout the old testament.

This is the problem with you claims that scriptures attest to a unified message. They don't unless you cherry-pick the parts you like and ignore the bits that conflict with the message you want to find. It's a confused, conflicted mess and that is exactly what we'd expect from an anthology of myths and legends written and revised over centuries by different groups with different agendas. It is not what we'd expect to find in something inspired by a transcendent intelligence.

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13-02-2016, 08:04 AM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(13-02-2016 07:35 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(12-02-2016 10:51 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  You are cherry picking. No one ever said anything about a "law". Nice try, pop. You fail again. Your god ordered the killing of many Innocent people.
So the commands of your evil violent deity are not a "law" ?

1 Samuel 15:2-3, "God commanded Saul and the Israelites, “This is what the LORD Almighty says: 'I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.'" God ordered similar things when the Israelites were invading the promised land (Deuteronomy 2:34; 3:6; 20:16-18).
Still not part of the law of Moses and as far as I am concerned; a mis representation of the will of GOD.

So, you don't really believe in the bible then. The BIBLE says god told them to do that. Either you cherry-pick your bible verses, or you don't.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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