Why do theists come to this forum?
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25-03-2016, 10:54 AM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(24-03-2016 10:24 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  ... If you cannot type Jesus is Lord, you have a demon. Take the test!

OK. Jesus is Lord. Whoopee. I passed.

Your turn.

Type "Fuck off God!" Raise your fist, glare upward and snarl "Get lost God, you jackass!" Can you do that? Or is your fear of what your obscene deity might do to you too great? Passing my test is substantially more liberating, more satisfying, more fulfilling and more fun than your vapid test.
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25-03-2016, 11:32 AM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(24-03-2016 07:53 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  2. Since you won't self-identify, I may need to assume you are a Lubavitcher. I'm aware of their tactics. You'd quoted Rebbe Singer--he believes--as does his community--that he can do whatever he needs to for Jews to deconvert away from Christ--even to lie--even though I find lying is prohibited in the Decalogue. And before you protest, understand that every non-Lubavitcher Jewish person I've ever interacted on forums was QUICK to say, "I'm Reform" or "I'm Conservative" or whatever.

I don’t self-identify because the Jewish community is small and the observant circles are even smaller. To me, this is a matter of personal safety, and I choose not to leave an obvious trail of breadcrumbs to my front door. I had considered sending you a PM to let you know my specific community, but you seem to content with the diagnoses you made.

Rabbi Singer is not Lubavitch. The term “Rebbe” is generally used to refer… Oh, never mind.

I just want to say this one thing about Rabbi Singer. It was the Christians who crossed onto our turf. Our counter missionary efforts are a direct response to Christians dressing up as Jews and evangelizing to our people. We don't go to you guys... you guys come to us, and yes, we will defend our views when you do that.

(24-03-2016 07:53 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  3. There ARE quite a number of Orthodox who convert, and who have converted. Many are secret believers. I remember one fellow witnessing to me--in a church--long white beard and filled with Talmudic wisdom and all. He said to me, "I buried my father and my grandfather and watched them go to Hell, and said nothing because I was afraid. Believe in Y'shua! Don't be afraid!"

How come these “orthodox” never surface? Ever. I mean… NEVER. EVER.

Oh, cause they’re secret Christians and they're scared about what we'll think. Why are they so scared? If according to Christianity, they’ve made this amazing new discovery, shouldn’t they be shouting it from the rooftops? Shouldn’t they be trying to “spread the good news?” We don’t even hear people make subtle insinuations. The people you claim are clamoring among us in secret don’t even try to get the conversation started.

(24-03-2016 07:53 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Other Orthodox and those similarly styled got saved, left the shtetl, and are counted among the ranks of the all-time great apologists and theologians. An internet search on Messianic theologians is revealing.

I did do a Google search on “Messianic theologians” and at least on the first result page, I didn’t find a single name that I could investigate. Who are these orthodox individuals? I want to talk to them. Link me to their information if I can’t speak directly to them.

(24-03-2016 07:53 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Had you heard that Messianics estimate that 1/3 of those who died in Shoah were Messianic? When Hitler pressed down and oppressed the people via the Nuremburg laws and etc. German Jewry, who were quite assimilated, began to hold Shabbos services in their homes, study Torah, and a revival occurred. As this happened, revived Tanakh study and interaction with Gentiles led to many Messianic conversions. Many went into the ovens with the Shema on their lips but it was said many others went saying "Mashiach will deliver!" Hallejujah.

Interesting. Can you link me to that data? I would consider the Holocaust Museum to be a very reliable source if you can get data from them.

And I’m sure you’re referring to actual Jews, raised in actual Judaism and not the poor Christians who got caught up in this because they came from assimilated families and happen to have partial Jewish blood running through their veins. We already know about those people, and they were raised Christian and Christianity was all they knew.
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25-03-2016, 11:42 AM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(22-03-2016 01:44 PM)ScottD Wrote:  Good question. For me I think it's partly out of a need to defend christianity.
Are you saying that it takes a mere mortal to "defend" Christianity? Is your alleged god so weak and defenseless that he needs to call on humans to help him out when the going gets tough? I thought you said he was omnipotent?

Quote:I'll ask the same question of non believers? Why gather and discuss non-belief?
Atheists don't "gather" in the sense you're using the word—we don't congregate en masse in gaudy multi-million dollar temples built to worship some imaginary god-figure. Nor do we meet in a secret huddle every Sunday, closed off from the real world outside, and listen to some boring old fart telling us what to do and what not do do because... well... he just knows.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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25-03-2016, 12:31 PM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(25-03-2016 11:32 AM)Aliza Wrote:  And I’m sure you’re referring to actual Jews, raised in actual Judaism and not the poor Christians who got caught up in this because they came from assimilated families and happen to have partial Jewish blood running through their veins. We already know about those people, and they were raised Christian and Christianity was all they knew.

I hope you realize that it doesn't work that way. There is no partial anything blood running through anyone's veins.

That is an old, non-scientific, racist notion.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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25-03-2016, 01:29 PM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(25-03-2016 12:31 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(25-03-2016 11:32 AM)Aliza Wrote:  And I’m sure you’re referring to actual Jews, raised in actual Judaism and not the poor Christians who got caught up in this because they came from assimilated families and happen to have partial Jewish blood running through their veins. We already know about those people, and they were raised Christian and Christianity was all they knew.

I hope you realize that it doesn't work that way. There is no partial anything blood running through anyone's veins.

That is an old, non-scientific, racist notion.

I'm not sure how to respond.

Germans did think that racial bloodlines were a real thing. That's why they went after people with genetic links to Judaism. It wasn't a religious ideology that they were attacking, it was the people that they perceived to be Jewish. Physically.

In Judaism, you're either 100% Jewish, or your 0% Jewish; one cannot be 1/2 or 1/4 Jewish. Bloodlines have nothing to do with it, and they never have. It's just that the Nazis didn't view Judaism the way we view it. (For tribal affiliations, like the house of David, the rules are different).
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25-03-2016, 03:16 PM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(25-03-2016 11:32 AM)Aliza Wrote:  I don’t self-identify because the Jewish community is small and the observant circles are even smaller. To me, this is a matter of personal safety, and I choose not to leave an obvious trail of breadcrumbs to my front door.

(25-03-2016 11:32 AM)Aliza Wrote:  Oh, cause they’re secret Christians and they're scared about what we'll think. Why are they so scared?
I dunno, why would someone be scared about what the Jewish community would think?

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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25-03-2016, 03:55 PM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
Hello! Big Grin

(25-03-2016 01:29 PM)Aliza Wrote:  ...... Germans did think that racial bloodlines were a real thing.

*Nods* They probably did. They also believed a lot of other good and bad and poor sciency things as well as down right evil and nasty things... Much like some folks do today.

(25-03-2016 01:29 PM)Aliza Wrote:  That's why they went after people with genetic links to Judaism.

No, they didn't/couldn't have. The whole beginning of 'Genetics' was with Watson and Crick actually, finally working out what it was inside the cells and its shape/form that lead onto the vast, amazing field of genetics.

Before that I'm sure there were a plethora of ideas about what as happening inside cells. Much like people used to believe in the 'eather' before better tests were devised work out what lay between the stars.

(25-03-2016 01:29 PM)Aliza Wrote:  It wasn't a religious ideology that they were attacking, it was the people that they perceived to be Jewish. Physically.

I would say it was exactly a religious ideology they were attacking. As well as perceived cultural differences etc.

(25-03-2016 01:29 PM)Aliza Wrote:  In Judaism, you're either 100% Jewish, or your 0% Jewish; one cannot be 1/2 or 1/4 Jewish. Bloodlines have nothing to do with it, and they never have.

Consider That's cool to know.

So it's a person's education which determines who is and ins't of the fiath?

(25-03-2016 01:29 PM)Aliza Wrote:  It's just that the Nazis didn't view Judaism the way we view it. (For tribal affiliations, like the house of David, the rules are different).

That's probably very true.

Smile
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25-03-2016, 04:32 PM (This post was last modified: 25-03-2016 04:40 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(25-03-2016 01:29 PM)Aliza Wrote:  In Judaism, you're either 100% Jewish, or your 0% Jewish; one cannot be 1/2 or 1/4 Jewish. Bloodlines have nothing to do with it, and they never have.

So what you're saying is that a drunk one-eyed black man with no Jewish lineage can be 100% Jew? Yes? ... 'cause that'd be cool.




#sigh
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25-03-2016, 04:44 PM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(25-03-2016 03:55 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  
(25-03-2016 01:29 PM)Aliza Wrote:  That's why [the Nazis] went after people with genetic links to Judaism.

No, they didn't/couldn't have. The whole beginning of 'Genetics' was with Watson and Crick actually, finally working out what it was inside the cells and its shape/form that lead onto the vast, amazing field of genetics.

Before that I'm sure there were a plethora of ideas about what as happening inside cells. Much like people used to believe in the 'eather' before better tests were devised work out what lay between the stars.

I didn't mean to imply that they had some kind of advanced (or even correct) understanding of genetics. But of course they understood that a person is made up of material from 4 grandparents. If 2 or 3 of those grandparents were Jews, then that person was classified as a Jew themselves. -Or could be considered Jewish. I think there was a "test" that was administered to determine "how Jewish" a person was, and lifestyle did play a factor as material inherited from grandparents became more watered down.

Ideology did play a role, but it was not solely based on ideology because it is my understanding that Christians with a certain amount of Jewish grandparents were considered to be Jewish, and their own beliefs did not factor in.

Also, people with 1 Jewish grandparent passed for normal society, but they were not permitted to marry Jews because the intention was to breed the "Jewishness" out of the population.

(25-03-2016 03:55 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  
(25-03-2016 01:29 PM)Aliza Wrote:  In Judaism, you're either 100% Jewish, or your 0% Jewish; one cannot be 1/2 or 1/4 Jewish. Bloodlines have nothing to do with it, and they never have.

Consider That's cool to know.

So it's a person's education which determines who is and ins't of the fiath?

Uhm... not quite, but education and willingness to be a part of the Jewish community can play a role. The explanation is based on woo, too. Jewishness is not a trait that can be scientifically tested for.
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25-03-2016, 05:10 PM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(22-03-2016 01:24 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(22-03-2016 01:04 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Yeah, those aren't cookies.
Not cookies! Then what the heck did I eat?

Uh... possibly a small part of the Q Continuum's brain that's seemingly fallen out? Confused

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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