Why do theists come to this forum?
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04-04-2016, 08:05 AM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(04-04-2016 07:47 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(04-04-2016 07:45 AM)Aliza Wrote:  They're not going to convert.

You'd be surprised Tongue

They're not going to convert because Israel won't let them. It's that simple.
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04-04-2016, 08:11 AM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(04-04-2016 08:05 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(04-04-2016 07:47 AM)morondog Wrote:  You'd be surprised Tongue

They're not going to convert because Israel won't let them. It's that simple.
But what would happen if the Q wants to convert to Judaism ? I hope for Judaism sake that will never happen.Blink

Religion is bullshit. The winner of the last person to post wins thread.Yes
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04-04-2016, 08:14 AM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(04-04-2016 08:05 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(04-04-2016 07:47 AM)morondog Wrote:  You'd be surprised Tongue

They're not going to convert because Israel won't let them. It's that simple.

... Seems a bit unfair? I thought if I decided to convert it's fine? Who are the Israeli government to deny people access to the benefits of being Jewish?

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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04-04-2016, 08:17 AM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(04-04-2016 08:14 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(04-04-2016 08:05 AM)Aliza Wrote:  They're not going to convert because Israel won't let them. It's that simple.

... Seems a bit unfair? I thought if I decided to convert it's fine? Who are the Israeli government to deny people access to the benefits of being Jewish?

First things first. Chopped your dick first and then you can talk about conversion.

Religion is bullshit. The winner of the last person to post wins thread.Yes
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04-04-2016, 09:12 AM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(04-04-2016 08:14 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(04-04-2016 08:05 AM)Aliza Wrote:  They're not going to convert because Israel won't let them. It's that simple.

... Seems a bit unfair? I thought if I decided to convert it's fine? Who are the Israeli government to deny people access to the benefits of being Jewish?

If you decide to convert (as an individual or a family), it's fine. If an entire nation wants to convert and move to Israel, then questions of political motivation arise. One cannot convert to Judaism for politically motivated reasons. If the theological attributes of Judaism were genuinely what attracted them, then they could just pick up the practices. They could even call themselves Jewish. –The Messianics do it all the time. Tongue It drives us nuts, but we can’t stop them.

The Chief Rabbinate of Israel is the authority on deciding who is and who is not a Jew. Judaism is not a religion like Christianity or Islam in that someone can just start believing and then they’re a member. Judaism is a nationality as much as it is a culture or religion. When you join the Jewish people, you’re becoming a naturalized citizen of a new country, as such that all you need to do is move to the land to claim your passport. Like any other country, Israel doesn’t just let everyone and anyone in, and our priority goes to Jews and non-Jews with Jewish heritage before it goes to potential converts. This is true of every other country. Resources are reserved for citizens before the countries even consider taking on an entire population of outsiders.
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04-04-2016, 09:14 AM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(04-04-2016 08:11 AM)Leo Wrote:  
(04-04-2016 08:05 AM)Aliza Wrote:  They're not going to convert because Israel won't let them. It's that simple.
But what would happen if the Q wants to convert to Judaism ? I hope for Judaism sake that will never happen.Blink

I hope for his sake that he does. We can teach him science and critical thinking skills.
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04-04-2016, 09:40 AM
Why do theists come to this forum?
A Jewish friend of mine explained the concept of being Jewish because of mothers. I'm not sure if it was his understanding or an official stance or what. From what he said, there is very rarely a question of motherhood. In modern times, you could be sent away and return with a baby and pass it off as your mother's baby.

But back then people rarely moved like that. So you knew Rivka was pregnant and you know when she gave birth. However, before DNA tests, if one or a few people insisted that little Shemoloh's father was Yosef and not Rivka's husband Yochanan, then there was doubt.
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04-04-2016, 11:32 AM
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(04-04-2016 08:17 AM)Leo Wrote:  
(04-04-2016 08:14 AM)morondog Wrote:  ... Seems a bit unfair? I thought if I decided to convert it's fine? Who are the Israeli government to deny people access to the benefits of being Jewish?

First things first. Chopped your dick first and then you can talk about conversion.

Already done to me before I was old enough to know anything at all. I just got none of the benefits with it.
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04-04-2016, 11:36 AM (This post was last modified: 04-04-2016 11:55 AM by Birdguy1979.)
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(04-04-2016 09:12 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(04-04-2016 08:14 AM)morondog Wrote:  ... Seems a bit unfair? I thought if I decided to convert it's fine? Who are the Israeli government to deny people access to the benefits of being Jewish?

If you decide to convert (as an individual or a family), it's fine. If an entire nation wants to convert and move to Israel, then questions of political motivation arise. One cannot convert to Judaism for politically motivated reasons. If the theological attributes of Judaism were genuinely what attracted them, then they could just pick up the practices. They could even call themselves Jewish. –The Messianics do it all the time. Tongue It drives us nuts, but we can’t stop them.

The Chief Rabbinate of Israel is the authority on deciding who is and who is not a Jew. Judaism is not a religion like Christianity or Islam in that someone can just start believing and then they’re a member. Judaism is a nationality as much as it is a culture or religion. When you join the Jewish people, you’re becoming a naturalized citizen of a new country, as such that all you need to do is move to the land to claim your passport. Like any other country, Israel doesn’t just let everyone and anyone in, and our priority goes to Jews and non-Jews with Jewish heritage before it goes to potential converts. This is true of every other country. Resources are reserved for citizens before the countries even consider taking on an entire population of outsiders.

You must not be from the united states. I use lower case for that on purpose by the way. In the u.s. we give everything to the illegals and it is very hard to get help if you belong here.
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04-04-2016, 12:17 PM (This post was last modified: 04-04-2016 07:39 PM by carol.)
RE: Why do theists come to this forum?
(03-04-2016 08:30 PM)Aliza Wrote:  Every other religion is bending over backwards to sell their theology to you, and we're bending over backwards to keep people out. When someone seeks to convert to Judaism (to the standards that satisfy the requirements laid out by Israel), they are embarking on a process that takes years to complete. They must assume a total lifestyle change, and they're told at every step of the way that there is no reason to convert, that they'll be loved and respected if they remain gentile, and that there is no afterlife benefit for being Jewish what-so-ever. When people convert, it's out of a sincere desire to be a part of the Jewish community and the process is so arduous challenging that people don't really take it lightly, and they just don't do it for a year or two.

I think that because you are college educated, and you were raised to be loving and accepting, that you may be seeing Judaism through rose tinted glasses. I have found many of the Rabbis I have talked to over the years to be somewhat xenophobic and elitist. The less conservative the Rabbi, the more inclusive and kind they seemed.
I think that you may be talking about contemporary definitions of love and respect that you are adding to Judaism to make it more palatable.
There seems to be a big difference between the ideas of love and respect for all human life as a concept, (which is encouraged in Judaism) and the direct, inclusive and interactive love and respect shown between Jews in the community. One is conceptual, the other is very active and direct. One is the act of loving behavior, the other is just an idea.

The biology of mind bridges the sciences - concerned with the natural world - and the humanities - concerned with the meaning of human experience. Eric Kandel
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