Why do we treat poor people like children?
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02-03-2014, 12:03 AM
RE: Why do we treat poor people like children?
(01-03-2014 07:57 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(01-03-2014 06:09 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Technically, you've committed fraud.

I don't hold it against you because I think you the individual and not some government bureaucrat is in the best position to determine what your family needs and what it doesn't. I wonder how many hours end up wasted by people trying to convert food stamps into something they need....like diapers.

Its a shame that you have to be treated like a child...told what you can and cannot buy just because you are poor. Its a shame that the majority of hard working honest poor people have to be deemed incompetent at making good decisions just to stop a few bad people from making bad ones.

Your $700 in food stamps should be replaced with $700 in money.

The program is for assistance in buying food. That's why they are food stamps.

It is really quite simple. Dodgy

True. But I really feel no shame in buying someone else food and letting them buy me diapers. And fraud or not, I don't feel guilty.
If I took that $700 in foodstamps or cash, I would feel guilty. I won't take more than what I really need.

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02-03-2014, 12:55 AM
RE: Why do we treat poor people like children?
(02-03-2014 12:03 AM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  
(01-03-2014 07:57 PM)Chas Wrote:  The program is for assistance in buying food. That's why they are food stamps.

It is really quite simple. Dodgy

True. But I really feel no shame in buying someone else food and letting them buy me diapers. And fraud or not, I don't feel guilty.
If I took that $700 in foodstamps or cash, I would feel guilty. I won't take more than what I really need.

question: is it really fraud?
Since you buy food with it,you are doing what is intended with the stamp. If you trade it for other things you need,that's not fraud,right?

I don't really like going outside.
It's too damn "peopley" out there....
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02-03-2014, 01:07 AM
RE: Why do we treat poor people like children?
(02-03-2014 12:55 AM)Lightvader Wrote:  question: is it really fraud?
Since you buy food with it,you are doing what is intended with the stamp. If you trade it for other things you need,that's not fraud,right?

It might be. At any rate, it demonstrates the free rider problem.

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02-03-2014, 01:58 AM
RE: Why do we treat poor people like children?
(02-03-2014 01:07 AM)toadaly Wrote:  It might be. At any rate, it demonstrates the free rider problem.

You have yet to demonstrate the volume of fraud. How many people do it? Is it worth destroying a program that benefits millions for a handful of unique cases? Certainly not.

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02-03-2014, 02:12 AM
RE: Why do we treat poor people like children?
(01-03-2014 11:58 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  I don't plan to ever let him meet her or see any of them, so as soon as I get on my feet I will let him off paying child support for the other two also.

L&I
Please don't 'let him off paying child support'. If it grates on you to accept money from this half-wit, think of how much it costs to send children to college and put the money in a fund for their future education.
Please remember that this money is for them, not you.
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02-03-2014, 02:07 PM
RE: Why do we treat poor people like children?
(02-03-2014 01:58 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  You have yet to demonstrate the volume of fraud. How many people do it? Is it worth destroying a program that benefits millions for a handful of unique cases? Certainly not.

I've made no comment on the volume of fraud, nor have I stated the program should be destroyed.

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02-03-2014, 05:33 PM
RE: Why do we treat poor people like children?
(02-03-2014 02:07 PM)toadaly Wrote:  I've made no comment on the volume of fraud, nor have I stated the program should be destroyed.

Yes, precisely my point. To say that the fraud is an issue that should be addressed as though it is important, one must demonstrate a magnitude that demands action. I don't give a shit if, for instance, 5% of food stamp recipients engage in fraud. If it was more widespread, then I'd care -- but so far, most political pundits in favor of reducing or removing the program have yet to provide anything but anecdotal evidence of this supposed problem.

I am not denying that some people commit fraud. I am saying that the volume is not large enough to actually demand any reform or action -- there are larger problems here (like getting people off of food stamps, getting them jobs, and ceasing wage stagnation).

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02-03-2014, 06:42 PM
RE: Why do we treat poor people like children?
(02-03-2014 05:33 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(02-03-2014 02:07 PM)toadaly Wrote:  I've made no comment on the volume of fraud, nor have I stated the program should be destroyed.

Yes, precisely my point. To say that the fraud is an issue that should be addressed as though it is important, one must demonstrate a magnitude that demands action. I don't give a shit if, for instance, 5% of food stamp recipients engage in fraud. If it was more widespread, then I'd care -- but so far, most political pundits in favor of reducing or removing the program have yet to provide anything but anecdotal evidence of this supposed problem.

I am not denying that some people commit fraud. I am saying that the volume is not large enough to actually demand any reform or action -- there are larger problems here (like getting people off of food stamps, getting them jobs, and ceasing wage stagnation).

Because most of them are making a moral argument (how dare they be needy) and not an economic one (the additional bureaucracy is more expensive than fraud losses)...

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02-03-2014, 07:59 PM
RE: Why do we treat poor people like children?
(02-03-2014 05:33 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Yes, precisely my point. To say that the fraud is an issue that should be addressed as though it is important, one must demonstrate a magnitude that demands action. I don't give a shit if, for instance, 5% of food stamp recipients engage in fraud. If it was more widespread, then I'd care -- but so far, most political pundits in favor of reducing or removing the program have yet to provide anything but anecdotal evidence of this supposed problem.

I am not denying that some people commit fraud. I am saying that the volume is not large enough to actually demand any reform or action -- there are larger problems here (like getting people off of food stamps, getting them jobs, and ceasing wage stagnation).

If we don't know the magnitude of the problem, then how do you know the volume is not large enough to demand reform or action? At any rate, the arguments for reducing these programs usually don't have much to do with fraud, but rather, a desire to strike a balance between keeping people from deprevation, and keeping them from being members of a permanent dole class.

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03-03-2014, 05:36 AM (This post was last modified: 03-03-2014 07:13 AM by Logica Humano.)
RE: Why do we treat poor people like children?
(02-03-2014 07:59 PM)toadaly Wrote:  If we don't know the magnitude of the problem, then how do you know the volume is not large enough to demand reform or action? At any rate, the arguments for reducing these programs usually don't have much to do with fraud, but rather, a desire to strike a balance between keeping people from deprevation, and keeping them from being members of a permanent dole class.

Yes, the lack of knowledge is applicable either way. So, if individuals actually care, they should perform the research and find accurate apportionment.

And I think those arguments are ridiculous. Wage stagnation and poor wealth distribution is what causes these "permanent" welfare recipients. When some states' welfare checks are worth more than actual wages, it is time to raise the minimum wage. That is the only fair solution.

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