Why do you desire truth?
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10-05-2017, 08:35 AM (This post was last modified: 10-05-2017 09:13 AM by true scotsman.)
RE: Why do you desire truth?
(10-05-2017 08:03 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(10-05-2017 07:42 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  No. I was being facesious. A happiness that is dependent on one's delusion is a false happiness just as a worldview which is not based on truth is a false worldview. And by definition a person who is delusional is not healthy. His happiness is tied up with not learning the truth.

If happiness is the objective, it doesn't really matter whether it's actually true or false. If it's false happiness, with a very little to no risk of losing it, ( or discovering that it's false) it's pretty much indistinguishable from true happiness.

If happiness is the ultimate aim here, than such a false happiness, with low risk, is a very good option.

As for as delusions being unhealthy by definition. That's not delusions the way atheists might use the term, but delusions that are the symptom of any number of mental disorders, like bipolar disorder, etc... False beliefs, that are product of your society and environment, the valued beliefs of your community, are not considered delusions by mental health professionals. It tends to beliefs that are outside of those parameters, that are rendered delusional by definition.

Atheists such as yourself are not appealing to the clinical definition when referring to christians, and religious folks as delusional. In fact such religious believers may be models of health and happiness.



So on your view, the false is a good option. You hear that folks? Right from the horse's mouth.

Having a false view of reality is a good option on Tomasia's view, as long as there is a slim chance of discovering the truth. Well that chance is a slim one if one abandons reason which is probably why religions frown upon "autonomous" thinking. Got to keep them all dumb and happy, after all which is probably why I got in so much trouble when I was in church, because I didn't give up on my mind.

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10-05-2017, 08:41 AM
RE: Why do you desire truth?
(10-05-2017 08:35 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  So on your view, the false is a good option. You here that folks? Right from the horse's mouth.

It's an entirely good option here. If happiness is your ultimate goal, than a false happiness with very little to no risk of losing it, is very good option. An economically sound one.

But if what you desire most in life is not happiness, than what is it? Truth? Truth for Truth's sake?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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10-05-2017, 09:12 AM
RE: Why do you desire truth?
(10-05-2017 08:41 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(10-05-2017 08:35 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  So on your view, the false is a good option. You here that folks? Right from the horse's mouth.

It's an entirely good option here. If happiness is your ultimate goal, than a false happiness with very little to no risk of losing it, is very good option. An economically sound one.

But if what you desire most in life is not happiness, than what is it? Truth? Truth for Truth's sake?
You wouldn't care to know it Tomasia. It would only make you unhappy.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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10-05-2017, 09:18 AM
RE: Why do you desire truth?
13 Pages of "why do you desire truth", really? Facepalm
And his core argument is "if it makes me happy..." Facepalm Facepalm

The second argument was the one that brought me to TTA. I was arguing with a well educated person (writer who studied history at university, a real university) back and forth endlessly. At the end she conceded, being frustrated by my merciless rationalism:"Well, if it makes me happy. Whats your problem with that!?" To this day i still dont know what to answer to such an utterly idiotic argument, or should i better say "admission of intellectual defeat and surrender to a willful (!) delusion"?

Shoot me if i ever come so far as to give up on my life and just retreat to such willful ignorance. Shoot me!

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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10-05-2017, 09:21 AM (This post was last modified: 10-05-2017 09:28 AM by Vera.)
RE: Why do you desire truth?
(10-05-2017 09:18 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  13 Pages of "why do you desire truth", really? Facepalm
And his core argument is "if it makes me happy..." Facepalm Facepalm

Maybe he's just the biggest Sheryl Crow fan there ever was Drinking Beverage

"So what if right now everything Tommyrot believes is wrong?"




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10-05-2017, 09:26 AM
RE: Why do you desire truth?
(10-05-2017 08:41 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(10-05-2017 08:35 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  So on your view, the false is a good option. You here that folks? Right from the horse's mouth.

It's an entirely good option here. If happiness is your ultimate goal, than a false happiness with very little to no risk of losing it, is very good option. An economically sound one.

But if what you desire most in life is not happiness, than what is it? Truth? Truth for Truth's sake?
But what is defined as happiness? Surely cannibals are "happy" when they are eating people, but that's not really acceptable, from a moral standpoint at least anyway.

And in terms of logic, there is no "truth for truth sake" there is only what is true and what isn't. Being happy has no real relevance to if you believe things to be true or not, because even if you think things are true, (like religion for example), it doesn't mean that it is, and you should really open up to the fact it's entirely possible either A) all religions are garbage or at very least B) that you might have picked/been brainwashed into the wrong one.

Being an Atheist, and as most of us do, we spend some of our time actually researching on various religions, to find the FACTS, the TRUE, if you will...and we've found nothing. BUT, we've taken the time to at least consider "maybe there is something in this religion, but we'd best check all of them to be sure".

Your personal point seems to be "well I'm not going to change, so I'll just happily sit in my own shit"

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10-05-2017, 10:55 AM
RE: Why do you desire truth?
(10-05-2017 09:26 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  
(10-05-2017 08:41 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  It's an entirely good option here. If happiness is your ultimate goal, than a false happiness with very little to no risk of losing it, is very good option. An economically sound one.

But if what you desire most in life is not happiness, than what is it? Truth? Truth for Truth's sake?
But what is defined as happiness? Surely cannibals are "happy" when they are eating people, but that's not really acceptable, from a moral standpoint at least anyway.

And in terms of logic, there is no "truth for truth sake" there is only what is true and what isn't. Being happy has no real relevance to if you believe things to be true or not, because even if you think things are true, (like religion for example), it doesn't mean that it is, and you should really open up to the fact it's entirely possible either A) all religions are garbage or at very least B) that you might have picked/been brainwashed into the wrong one.

Being an Atheist, and as most of us do, we spend some of our time actually researching on various religions, to find the FACTS, the TRUE, if you will...and we've found nothing. BUT, we've taken the time to at least consider "maybe there is something in this religion, but we'd best check all of them to be sure".

Your personal point seems to be "well I'm not going to change, so I'll just happily sit in my own shit"

While the truth and logic fucks his ass and mouth with absolutely no effect.
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10-05-2017, 11:24 AM
RE: Why do you desire truth?
(10-05-2017 08:19 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(10-05-2017 07:05 AM)kemo boy Wrote:  Appearances can be deceiving, especially once you deceived yourself.

I think it's interesting to consider the situation we find ourselves in. You have one mind that sees another mind as deceived, while the mind that's being accused of being deceived doesn't see itself as deceived.

Your mind perhaps sees my mind as deceived, while my mind doesn't see myself as deceived. But let's just consider this in light of you observation being right, that my mind is deceived.

What does that say about my mind, and perhaps even minds like mine in general?
That minds can be incapable of seeing their own deceptions in certain areas, yet can operate quite functionally, and with good results in every other area of one's life. And those deceptions might just be entirely impenetrable.

I can try and muster as much energy as possible, asking you to help me see that I am deceived, and the end result would likely be null. Regardless of how hard I try, and how much effort you try to put in. And being that no mind is particularly unique, this should say a lot about minds and deceptions, if your claims about mine are true.

It say a lot about YOUR deception and state of mind.
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10-05-2017, 11:27 AM
RE: Why do you desire truth?
(10-05-2017 07:22 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  What I do find very interesting is the level in which the point I find as an inevitable position for an unbeliever is the one most resisted, while one promoting, or at some level supportive of my entirely religious belief, is the one being defended by unbelievers.

Which seems to me to indicate that my religious beliefs here are possibly true, or possibly that the atheists here have been drinking the religious kool-aid regarding the value of truth, for so long, that they can't give it up.

Doesn't indicate that at all. But whatever makes you happy.
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10-05-2017, 11:44 AM
RE: Why do you desire truth?
I think the thread should be renamed "Why do you bother with the truth if you can be happier playing make-believe?"

I'm sorry, but your beliefs are much too silly to take seriously. Got anything else we can discuss?
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