Why do you desire truth?
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17-05-2017, 09:10 PM
RE: Why do you desire truth?
(17-05-2017 07:19 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  LMAO.
The fittest person on Earth, without the accurate data that there is a shooter in the next room, who is about to fire, is a dead man.
The degree of fitness has no bearing on the outcome.

Got any other brilliant ideas ? Weeping

Everyone who is not in the room with the shooter, and is unlikely to be in the room with the shooter for whatever reason is alive, even those who didn't know there was a shooter in the room. And anyone in the room with the shooter for whatever reason, can end up dead.

The man who entered the room, because he incorrectly thought the shooter wasn't there, or wasn't aware there was a shooter, would have benefited from a true belief, possibly avoiding his death as a result.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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17-05-2017, 10:04 PM
RE: Why do you desire truth?
(17-05-2017 09:10 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(17-05-2017 07:19 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  LMAO.
The fittest person on Earth, without the accurate data that there is a shooter in the next room, who is about to fire, is a dead man.
The degree of fitness has no bearing on the outcome.

Got any other brilliant ideas ? Weeping

Everyone who is not in the room with the shooter, and is unlikely to be in the room with the shooter for whatever reason is alive, even those who didn't know there was a shooter in the room. And anyone in the room with the shooter for whatever reason, can end up dead.

The man who entered the room, because he incorrectly thought the shooter wasn't there, or wasn't aware there was a shooter, would have benefited from a true belief, possibly avoiding his death as a result.

Oh now widdle Tommy. You don't really think everyone is as dumb as you are.
You said "No, fitness, in particular behaviors and actions, conducive to fitness determines whether you live or die. You just changed your widdle goal posts, Tommy, right in front of god and everyone. Bad boy. The *true belief* is NOT the point. Your (now debunked) fitness claim was the point.

What are you doing here ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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18-05-2017, 02:42 AM
RE: Why do you desire truth?
(17-05-2017 06:35 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Accurate data does not equal fitness.

I think you are confusing information which is selected in accordance with our interests, yet from the real world, with inaccurate information. There is a difference between information which is honestly collected, which gives us our fitness, and the counterfeit which is just made up because of selfish interests, which is arguably much less adaptive in the long run.
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18-05-2017, 09:07 AM
RE: Why do you desire truth?
(17-05-2017 08:26 PM)Robvalue Wrote:  It seems clear to me that in any particular situation, without any specifics, having an accurate understanding of what is happening in that situation (and of the world in general) is going to put you in the best position, the vast majority of the time.

The best position in the vast majority of the times, are ones in which we’re programmed to act according with little to no thought. If what’s required is that your behave a certain way when approaching certain stimuli, it’s better if you’re able to respond in a programmed fashion, it’s more efficient than waiting for you to acquire true beliefs, and accurate perceptions of your situation. Evolution has long favored short-cuts, and efficiency. A point that's readily more clear in consideration of non-human animals, and life forms.

Consider negatively bias, a considerable barrier when it comes to drawing accurate understandings and perceptions. If evolution favored objective minds, able to process information in a neutral manner, such biological tendencies are unlikely to exist.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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18-05-2017, 10:15 AM
RE: Why do you desire truth?
(18-05-2017 09:07 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  If evolution favored objective minds, able to process information in a neutral manner, such biological tendencies are unlikely to exist.

Why it favoured us with a general reasoning ability is not completely understood, but the religious angle is more or less certainly an artifact. Complex civilisations did not arise until the past 10 000 years, when the religious cohesion angle became useful. That's not enough time to evolve anything much with regard to a preference for believing in fairytales, but even if it was, the fairytales would still be fairytales and not truth.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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18-05-2017, 10:21 AM
RE: Why do you desire truth?
Tomasia, can you tell us what the point of this was?

This thread has been banging on with total word salad garbage for 23+ pages now, and I don't really understand what you're trying to say. Can you summarize, in plain English, what the bloody hell you're trying to achieve here?

"Whatever you say, Stone Cold Steve Austin." - Rick
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18-05-2017, 10:26 AM
RE: Why do you desire truth?
(18-05-2017 10:21 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  Tomasia, can you tell us what the point of this was?

This thread has been banging on with total word salad garbage for 23+ pages now, and I don't really understand what you're trying to say. Can you summarize, in plain English, what the bloody hell you're trying to achieve here?

IMO he's trying to say that picking and choosing what one believes is true is perfectly valid. i.e. he wants to say that atheism - something which relies on critical thinking - and his and every other flavour of theism (all of which do not rely on critical thinking at all) are equivalent. Same shit different day.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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18-05-2017, 10:37 AM
RE: Why do you desire truth?
(18-05-2017 10:26 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(18-05-2017 10:21 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  Tomasia, can you tell us what the point of this was?

This thread has been banging on with total word salad garbage for 23+ pages now, and I don't really understand what you're trying to say. Can you summarize, in plain English, what the bloody hell you're trying to achieve here?

IMO he's trying to say that picking and choosing what one believes is true is perfectly valid. i.e. he wants to say that atheism - something which relies on critical thinking - and his and every other flavour of theism (all of which do not rely on critical thinking at all) are equivalent. Same shit different day.
Isnt that like saying: "I don't believe oxygen is true, because that makes me happy" despite it being factually true? Sometimes, Tomasia, it doesn't matter if you personally think something is true or not, because it either IS or ISN'T true, as the literal definition of True and False dictate.

It's just pissing me off how we're all going round in bloody circles with him, and all I'm reading is "but what about this/what about that/what if I believe that drinking tea makes me live to 150 years old/what if the truth is no the truth of the truth because its a false truth". What the fuck are you on about ?!

IMO, if you follow any organised religion, you're not 100% interested in what is true or not, because you're choosing to accept a whole lot of hot garbage on face value, which is just plain lunacy.

True = in accordance with fact or reality.
False = not according with truth or fact; incorrect.

That is it, there is not "but what about the..." garbage, it either is true or it isn't. you only think in terms of your random secular brain, but you need to expand mate. Does religion have ANY proof of ANYTHING it's ever said, to then line up with being factual true? Nope, not 1 bit.

"Whatever you say, Stone Cold Steve Austin." - Rick
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18-05-2017, 10:44 AM
RE: Why do you desire truth?
(18-05-2017 10:21 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  Tomasia, can you tell us what the point of this was?

This thread has been banging on with total word salad garbage for 23+ pages now, and I don't really understand what you're trying to say. Can you summarize, in plain English, what the bloody hell you're trying to achieve here?

To work out some arguments, to see what meaningful objections can be raised. To explore the psychology behind the value and desire for truth.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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18-05-2017, 10:51 AM
RE: Why do you desire truth?
Tomasia, we have the biological mentality to react according to our instincts and the capacity to override those instincts in favor of a more rational solution.

Evolution doesn't favor much of anything.
If a species can reproduce, that's all that's required.
Whatever mental faculties are present, get passed along. Simple as that.

Religion doesn't normally prevent people from having sex. You would think if you wanted to save your children from the possibility of hell, you wouldn't have any, but NO, religions want you to have kids, so they can make money off a new generation.

If they believe that people who don't know about Jesus, won't go to hell, then they should tell anybody about it, but NO, they want people to know so they can fear them into joining their little money cult based on death.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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