Why do you desire truth?
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18-05-2017, 11:16 AM
RE: Why do you desire truth?
(18-05-2017 10:37 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  Isnt that like saying: "I don't believe oxygen is true, because that makes me happy" despite it being factually true? Sometimes, Tomasia, it doesn't matter if you personally think something is true or not, because it either IS or ISN'T true, as the literal definition of True and False dictate.

My arguments are not about what is in fact true, my argument revolves around a commonly confessed desire for true beliefs, about true and false beliefs. My argument is in regards to the nature of belief, not about the nature of reality outside of those beliefs. Whether it personally matters to think something is true or not, for a variety of aims and purposes.


Quote:IMO, if you follow any organised religion, you're not 100% interested in what is true or not, because you're choosing to accept a whole lot of hot garbage on face value, which is just plain lunacy.

No one is 100% interested in truth. Truth is not an end in itself for biological creatures like ourselves. It’s a possible means for a variety of ends/goals. Our actual interested and desire are not for truth, but the ends we hope it serves. Such as our happiness, our sense of security, emotional stability, a sense of internal consistency, a desire to feel we’re authentic, etc… And the reality is that one may very well possess all these things, and have a false worldview.

To believe that any one of you desires truth for truth sakes is just non-sense, you desire truth for the sake of something else.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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18-05-2017, 06:11 PM
RE: Why do you desire truth?
(18-05-2017 10:15 AM)morondog Wrote:  Why it favoured us with a general reasoning ability is not completely understood, but the religious angle is more or less certainly an artifact. Complex civilisations did not arise until the past 10 000 years, when the religious cohesion angle became useful. That's not enough time to evolve anything much with regard to a preference for believing in fairytales, but even if it was, the fairytales would still be fairytales and not truth.

Religious beliefs are reflections of minds, whose history is rooted in 4 billions years of evolution. Once men where able to share their deeper perceptions of reality to others, those perceptions were religious in nature. In fact it touched pretty much every area of human beliefs, the tribal, the political, the philosophical, the family, the moral, the tragic, death, life, even dietary habits, etc..

It maybe be true in our age we've decentralized religions, created it's own unique sphere, separate from all the rest. In the past no sphere was left untouched by it. To consider why religion, is in reality a consideration of all the beliefs that animate human life.

To truly consider the question of why religion, the nature and predominance of religious belief, their near universal appearance, the parameters are not 10,000 years, but billions. We'd had to consider the root, to contemplate the branch in all it's fullness.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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18-05-2017, 06:14 PM
RE: Why do you desire truth?
Tomato is still trolling here? Drinking Beverage

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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18-05-2017, 10:10 PM
RE: Why do you desire truth?
1. Not surprised to see you, Tomater, pulling your same ol schtick here.

2. What methods are you adhering too, to conclude that your religious beliefs are true?

You've answered a few here proving that you are able to acknowledge medical doctor's expertise in their respective fields. You accept their diagnosis as true, over that of a faith healer, witch doctor or any alternative medicine. So did you use the same methods to conclude that the doctor is providing you truth as you did in concluding that your belief system is true?
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18-05-2017, 10:34 PM
RE: Why do you desire truth?
(18-05-2017 06:11 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Religious beliefs are reflections of minds, whose history is rooted in 4 billions years of evolution. Once men where able to share their deeper perceptions of reality to others, those perceptions were religious in nature. In fact it touched pretty much every area of human beliefs, the tribal, the political, the philosophical, the family, the moral, the tragic, death, life, even dietary habits, etc..

It maybe be true in our age we've decentralized religions, created it's own unique sphere, separate from all the rest. In the past no sphere was left untouched by it. To consider why religion, is in reality a consideration of all the beliefs that animate human life.

To truly consider the question of why religion, the nature and predominance of religious belief, their near universal appearance, the parameters are not 10,000 years, but billions. We'd had to consider the root, to contemplate the branch in all it's fullness.

Organised religion, the only religion of any kind that I would consider to possibly confer some survival benefit on a society as a whole, by encouraging social cohesiveness, certainly dates back only a few thousand years. Before that, of course people has some beliefs which might have been woo in nature. If you're gonna start talking in terms of billions of years then I'm gonna have to ask you to cite evidence, something which experience has shown you're not particularly good at.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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18-05-2017, 11:21 PM
RE: Why do you desire truth?
Why any should prefer the truth must be really surprising to a guy who has devoted his life to maintaining a comfortable illusion. This really proves that at the extremes there is no way to tell a sincere whack job from a determined Poe.

“Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
Man got to sit and wonder 'why, why, why?'
Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
Man got to tell himself he understand.”

― Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle
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18-05-2017, 11:27 PM
RE: Why do you desire truth?
It's one thing to note how various kinds of beliefs may have historically affected survival chances. It's another very strange idea to try and emulate such mindsets in our very different environment. Even more weird coming from a religious person. Is the only goal of Tomasia to survive?

People get away with mild woo because it's gap-filling. It only becomes detrimental once it actually affects important decisions. And it would do, if religious people acted in accordance with what they say they believe. But they generally don't, they act like atheists for the most part. They'd be dead or in jail pretty quickly otherwise. Their instincts are not convinced.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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19-05-2017, 12:40 AM
RE: Why do you desire truth?
Wait a minute...

If I thought that when I die I will instantly move onto this much better and permanent life, why would I be concerned about surviving as long as possible? I'd want to get this crap over with ASAP. It seems like another instance of not really believing your own spiel.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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19-05-2017, 01:03 AM
RE: Why do you desire truth?
(09-05-2017 08:00 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Why do you personally desire scientific truths, what is this biologically appeasing for you?

I dunno, maybe dealing with reality on reality's terms?

Take, for instance, an innate understanding of gravity, which most creatures seem to have. Falling far enough will kill you.

I should think the answer to your question would be obvious. Creatures which don't live in concordance with reality all too often end up killed by the reality they don't recognize.
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19-05-2017, 01:33 AM
RE: Why do you desire truth?
(19-05-2017 01:03 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(09-05-2017 08:00 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Why do you personally desire scientific truths, what is this biologically appeasing for you?

I dunno, maybe dealing with reality on reality's terms?

Take, for instance, an innate understanding of gravity, which most creatures seem to have. Falling far enough will kill you.

I should think the answer to your question would be obvious. Creatures which don't live in concordance with reality all too often end up killed by the reality they don't recognize.

..and thats exactly why i am wondering why we need to have 24 pages of inane, trollish wanking. Drinking Beverage

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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