Why do you desire truth?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
09-05-2017, 03:02 PM
RE: Why do you desire truth?
(09-05-2017 02:48 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  In order to be a certain way, we have to see the world in a certain way.
At least that's my observation.

And if ... it's consistency that a man seeks, and not necessarily truth, [that is] a point I would agree with you on. That this desire for consistency is psychological in nature, revealing more about the nature of the person, then nature of reality outside of them.
In my experience consistency is not sustainable unless your perceptions are fairly good representations of reality. We operate based on abstractions and summarized conceptions, but those abstractions leak and those conceptions are imperfect. This leads to increasingly unexpected and poorly explained outcomes for those who do not properly close the evidence / experience feedback loop and adjust their thinking accordingly.

None of us gets reality 100% dead-on correct, but it helps to draw conclusions after examining evidence, not starting with conclusions and looking for evidence to "support" them, as religion generally does. It then further helps to be constantly seeking new / more detailed evidence and being flexible enough to adjust when warranted. This allows you to approach an accurate "mental map" of reality.

Religion is someone else's prefabricated map, based on false premises. It was at one time my starting point, but I found it severely lacking both in its ability to predict and explain experienced outcomes and in its ability to digest and adapt to new information.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like mordant's post
09-05-2017, 03:20 PM
RE: Why do you desire truth?
(09-05-2017 03:02 PM)mordant Wrote:  In my experience consistency is not sustainable unless your perceptions are fairly good representations of reality. We operate based on abstractions and summarized conceptions, but those abstractions leak and those conceptions are imperfect. This leads to increasingly unexpected and poorly explained outcomes for those who do not properly close the evidence / experience feedback loop and adjust their thinking accordingly.

I think you'd be judging from the outside, in. You may see another person as inconsistent, why the person himself might see himself as internally consistent. Take me for instance as an example, the consensus here might be that I'm entirely inconsistent, that I lack an internal consistency. But from my perspective it's exactly the opposite, that I am internally consistent, any threats to it, being entirely distinguished over time. But let's say that others here are right, and I lack such a consistency, that I objectively lack it, but subjectively don't. The subjective consistency here is entirely sustainable, and that it's almost impossible for me to see the objective inconsistency that you as an external observer might see..

And I think if we take humanity as a whole, what we see is it's fractured into a multitudes of individuals and groups with their own competing internal consistencies. If one particularly groups is right, the wrongs have been able to sustain themselves just as well as them, if not better.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
09-05-2017, 03:32 PM
Why do you desire truth?
(09-05-2017 08:00 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Why do you desire truth?

Many atheists seem to draw a distinction between their own desire for truth, and the desires of theists. They’ll likely add a serious of qualifiers, such as scientific, evidence based, objective, etc….. But one answer that I always have trouble getting an honest response about, is this:

Being that we are all biological creatures, and all desires and their appeasement are biological in nature, what biological desire is appeased by your desire for truth? And if you grant the premise here, that desires are biological, as well as the satisfaction of them, then truth is a means to an end. If truth makes you feel secure, secure in your marriage, than it’s a sense of security that you desire, and truth in this particular instance is a means of acquiring that. If it’s because truth offers survival advantages, it’s survival you desire, and truth is a means for that, etc..

So how would you explain your desire for truth, in relationship to you being a biological creature, and in particular, in regards to how you might distinguish your desire for truth, from theists, and religious folks in general?

Why do you personally desire scientific truths, what is this biologically appeasing for you?


I'm interested in the motive behind this verbose question. It seems as if you're saying that you recognize and admit that theists prefer opinion-based "truth" or "alternative facts" in place of verifiable evidence, so long as those non-factual facts align with your preconceived beliefs.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Rachel's post
09-05-2017, 03:50 PM
RE: Why do you desire truth?
(09-05-2017 01:07 PM)kim Wrote:  Well, if christee™ fucks want to make the rest of the world healthy & happy, they need to fuck off outside planned parenthood and health clinics. Thumbsup

I'd say we care for our happiness and health, that our desires for others to be happy and healthy only matters in light of how it contributes to our happiness and health. I might be quite unhappy to find that my brother is suffering, therefore alleviating his suffering matters to me.

But if our happiness depended on making the world happy, we'd likely be very disappointed and sad.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
09-05-2017, 04:21 PM
RE: Why do you desire truth?
(09-05-2017 03:50 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(09-05-2017 01:07 PM)kim Wrote:  Well, if christee™ fucks want to make the rest of the world healthy & happy, they need to fuck off outside planned parenthood and health clinics. Thumbsup

I'd say we care for our happiness and health, that our desires for others to be happy and healthy only matters in light of how it contributes to our happiness and health. I might be quite unhappy to find that my brother is suffering, therefore alleviating his suffering matters to me.

But if our happiness depended on making the world happy, we'd likely be very disappointed and sad.

Oh, so it is only your brother who's health you care about... I see. So, your sisters, mothers, & wives need to be told they will burn in hell. I've heard it myself ... and I have even seen your brothers yelling it at people going in to health clinics.
Sitting outside of Health clinics and telling to people going in that they are going to burn in hell CAUSES SUFFERING.

Your truth seems a tad hollow, compared to what I've experienced. Drinking Beverage

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like kim's post
09-05-2017, 04:29 PM
RE: Why do you desire truth?
Tomasia, why do you desire reality in your life ?
Why not live completely in fantasy ?

When you wake up in the morning, close your eyes.
Go about your entire day not worrying about the truth.
Drink some water for breakfast. You don't need any truthful nutrition. Drive your car without seeing the truth of where everything else is in the world.

That crash you had must mean you've arrived at work.
Hmmm, you can't open your door and you feel truthful blood and a deployed airbag in your face.

Buy hey, this doesn't concern you, after all, why should we desire the truth ?

You slowly die in your car from internal bleeding.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Rahn127's post
09-05-2017, 05:49 PM
RE: Why do you desire truth?
(09-05-2017 08:00 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Why do you desire truth?

Many atheists seem to draw a distinction between their own desire for truth, and the desires of theists. They’ll likely add a serious of qualifiers, such as scientific, evidence based, objective, etc….. But one answer that I always have trouble getting an honest response about, is this:

Being that we are all biological creatures, and all desires and their appeasement are biological in nature, what biological desire is appeased by your desire for truth? And if you grant the premise here, that desires are biological, as well as the satisfaction of them, then truth is a means to an end. If truth makes you feel secure, secure in your marriage, than it’s a sense of security that you desire, and truth in this particular instance is a means of acquiring that. If it’s because truth offers survival advantages, it’s survival you desire, and truth is a means for that, etc..

So how would you explain your desire for truth, in relationship to you being a biological creature, and in particular, in regards to how you might distinguish your desire for truth, from theists, and religious folks in general?

Why do you personally desire scientific truths, what is this biologically appeasing for you?

we explain things to make stuff. Proteins work together like machines to make things that we call life. Life is a collection of proteins working to make a living planet.

we will make the next life form because that what proteins do. When we know why, then I'll let ya know why.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
09-05-2017, 06:05 PM
RE: Why do you desire truth?
(09-05-2017 04:29 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Tomasia, why do you desire reality in your life ?

For the sake of internal consistency. Why do we need internal consistency? To keep the music going, and our feet dancing.

Quote:Why not live completely in fantasy ?

It is interesting when considering our evolutionary produced brains, that natural selection favored minds that have such trouble distinguishing between fantasy and reality. Perhaps because natural selection doesn't favor beliefs that are accordance with reality, but in beliefs that leads to actions and behaviors.


Quote:When you wake up in the morning, close your eyes.
Go about your entire day not worrying about the truth.
Drink some water for breakfast. You don't need any truthful nutrition.

I desire to be healthy, so I can live a long and healthy life, there for nutrition matters to me.

Quote:Drive your car without seeing the truth of where everything else is in the world.

I desire to live a long life, therefore I like to keep my eyes open when I drive, and be aware of my surroundings.

Quote:Buy hey, this doesn't concern you, after all, why should we desire the truth ?

In your example, for survival, for my healthy and happiness, what's true is just means to ends here.

Perhaps as another poster indicated for himself, perhaps what you desire is not truth, but health and happiness. The only truth that matters are the ones conducive to that?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
09-05-2017, 07:01 PM
RE: Why do you desire truth?
In order to obtain health & happiness, you must desire those truthful aspects about observed reality.

When you do something to benefit your health, you are observing reality and making choices about what is true and what is false. You are considering the consequences of your actions. The question remains, how do you determine what is true and what is not true ? How do you determine what is real and honest and truthful and what is fantasy, dishonest and not true ?

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Rahn127's post
09-05-2017, 07:05 PM
RE: Why do you desire truth?
“It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying or reassuring.” (Carl Sagan) Consider
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Gwaithmir's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: