Why do you desire truth?
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09-05-2017, 09:08 PM
RE: Why do you desire truth?
(09-05-2017 07:32 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(09-05-2017 07:05 PM)Gwaithmir Wrote:  “It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying or reassuring.” (Carl Sagan) Consider

Is it far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to be happy and healthy?
You're just not gonna be happy until someone here with an actual grasp on reason pats you on the head and tells you you're justified in your delusional shit if it makes you happy are ya?

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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09-05-2017, 09:24 PM
RE: Why do you desire truth?
(09-05-2017 06:05 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  ... I desire to live a long life, therefore I like to keep my eyes open when I drive, and be aware of my surroundings ...
You said it yourself, you keep your eyes open and keep aware of your surroundings to live long - and in fact, stay alive at all. There's a word for the surroundings you're keen to keep aware of: truth.

Funny thing is, once you know enough of what's true to function effectively, you don't need a god any more. I'm sure you don't invoke your god in every aspect of your driving, you keep your eyes open and manage effectively on your own. You know what the truth is and stay clear of ditches and other cars.

You only invoke your god in matters you feel helpless to manage effectively yourself. That's obvious - if you could deal with something yourself there's no point beseeching some god to hoist your fanny across the places you don't know enough truth about to handle confidently yourself.

After awhile it becomes obvious to anyone who's paying attention that enlarging one's fund of truth (knoiwledge) means less anxiety hoping a notoriously unreliable god will protect you from your ignorance and false perceptions. Truth gives you the power to kick that jackass of a god out of your life so you can enjoy it more, and increase not just its longevity but its depth and richness of experience, and give it real meaning.
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09-05-2017, 09:32 PM
RE: Why do you desire truth?
A fantasy cannot make you healthier than reality.
Delusional health is not healthier than real health.

Drugs can give you an artificial high.
Delusion can give you artificial happiness.
This kind of temporary high & happiness more than likely feels better than your average night out with your friends, but they also have their downsides.

The drugs foster addiction.
Delusional thoughts take you further down the rabbit hole until your mind is lost in it's own thoughts and fears and terrors.

Everything has a price.
And a mind is a terrible thing to waste.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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09-05-2017, 09:33 PM
RE: Why do you desire truth?
Why do you desire truth?

Because I was raised as a God fearing child who was told that truth is from God and lies are of the devil.

It was just a sad truth that there are many lies told by those who say they are working on God's behalf, with no one holding them accountable. How many started walking away from God because of the rubbish you type?
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09-05-2017, 09:43 PM
RE: Why do you desire truth?
Truth? I can't handle the truth!!! I'd prefer a comforting fiction .. just not the one that comes with the stupid bearded fairy the xtians worship. They can have that one.

“Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
Man got to sit and wonder 'why, why, why?'
Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
Man got to tell himself he understand.”

― Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle
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09-05-2017, 11:27 PM
RE: Why do you desire truth?
If I have a high regard for truth and true facts, it puts me me first name basis with reality.

Why would you want superstition, nonsense, untruth and bullshit? If you screw up bad enough in this regard, reality will step on you like a bug. Squish! Do you want that?

When I shake my ignore file, I can hear them buzzing!

Cheerful Charlie
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10-05-2017, 01:22 AM
RE: Why do you desire truth?
The closer the models of reality I have in my head are to actual reality, the better placed I am to make good decisions. From a biological standpoint, that desire would ultimately be about survival I guess. It's an advantage to understand your environment and to be able to make decisions so that the outcomes closely match your intentions, so the ability to do this well would have been naturally selected.

Absolute truth is a red herring. I try to discover things that appear to be true about reality beyond reasonable doubt. And that's all you need for survival.

I don't know what theists are trying to do exactly.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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10-05-2017, 01:48 AM (This post was last modified: 10-05-2017 01:58 AM by Robvalue.)
RE: Why do you desire truth?
Well, I know what a large percentage of them are doing, and that's continuing to believe fantasies that they have been indoctrinated with when they were young and weren't able to think properly. I can't imagine what this is like (I can only guess it's similar to being drunk), although I have come to understand very well some of the psychological explanations for why such beliefs persist, such as:

Confirmation bias
Placebo effect
Societal reinforcement and pressure
Natural mental defenses against challenging ingrained beliefs
Interpreting thoughts and feelings as coming from an external entity (turning a relationship with yourself into a relationship with some nebulous being)

Viewed from the outside, it's easy to see how the above factors can produce numerous groups of people who are all convinced they have "the truth", while believing totally different things. It's just the same for all the religions that have since died out.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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10-05-2017, 02:01 AM
RE: Why do you desire truth?
(09-05-2017 09:33 PM)saki Wrote:  It was just a sad truth that there are many lies told by those who say they are working on God's behalf, with no one holding them accountable.

Starting with the lie that they are working on God's behalf...

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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10-05-2017, 02:24 AM (This post was last modified: 10-05-2017 02:28 AM by Robvalue.)
RE: Why do you desire truth?
OK one more:

It seems to me that the difference between the scientific approach and the theistic mindset is as follows:

Science is the quest for demonstrable, robust knowledge. It comes with the understanding that there will always be limits to our knowledge. It deals with the testable.

Theology is the quest for answers, regardless of how accurate those answers are. It deals with the untestable. (Whenever it makes testable claims, they fail instantly.)

It seems a lot of people are hugely uncomfortable not having an answer for everything, causing them to use theology as well as (or sometimes instead of) science, so that all gaps are filled. This is evidenced by such questions as, "Well where did everything come from then?"

I'd rather just say I don't know, than have a made-up answer.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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