Why do you think god is not real?
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14-09-2018, 11:31 PM
Lightbulb Why do you think god is not real?
Undecided Sorry for my bad English, came from a country that does not use English very often.

There is a lot of debate about god on the internet, but half of them are uncivil exclaims and people arguing and not making valid points. I'm trying to understand why atheists does not think god is real.

I'm an Christian, and I believe in god. But I'm willing to put my personnel religion and beliefs away from this argument and try to understand other atheists. I do not understand how people does not think god is real and solely based their evidence on the fact that "they haven't seen one"or "common sense" which is really not a good evidence to proof god isint real. and what makes me so frustrated is that how some atheists were single mindedly clinging to science, and putting scientific knowledge above all and refuses to accept other form of knowledge.

An good example of "things that might exist but you have no way of proofing it" is tachyon (a theoretical particle that can surpass the speed of light) if it exists, we have no way of detecting it due to its speed. So does tachyon simply does not exist because we cannot sense it? (Although possible and could exist?)

There are no way to proof god isin't real, but there aren't any reliable methods to proof god is real neither, proofing god exist/does not exist is like a solving paradox, so what gives you the thought of "god is not real"?
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15-09-2018, 12:44 AM
RE: Why do you think god is not real?
(14-09-2018 11:31 PM)Nyloncarin Wrote:  ...
so what gives you the thought of "god is not real"?

Welcome to TTA.

Speaking for myself... I got lucky.

I was inoculated before I was exposed to the virus.

By that I mean that I had read about long-dead gods (Roman, Norse, Greek etc.) before churchy people tried to persuade me that the Jewish god was real.

Wink

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15-09-2018, 01:19 AM
RE: Why do you think god is not real?
(14-09-2018 11:31 PM)Nyloncarin Wrote:  Undecided Sorry for my bad English, came from a country that does not use English very often.

There is a lot of debate about god on the internet, but half of them are uncivil exclaims and people arguing and not making valid points. I'm trying to understand why atheists does not think god is real.

I'm an Christian, and I believe in god. But I'm willing to put my personnel religion and beliefs away from this argument and try to understand other atheists. I do not understand how people does not think god is real and solely based their evidence on the fact that "they haven't seen one"or "common sense" which is really not a good evidence to proof god isint real. and what makes me so frustrated is that how some atheists were single mindedly clinging to science, and putting scientific knowledge above all and refuses to accept other form of knowledge.

An good example of "things that might exist but you have no way of proofing it" is tachyon (a theoretical particle that can surpass the speed of light) if it exists, we have no way of detecting it due to its speed. So does tachyon simply does not exist because we cannot sense it? (Although possible and could exist?)

There are no way to proof god isin't real, but there aren't any reliable methods to proof god is real neither, proofing god exist/does not exist is like a solving paradox, so what gives you the thought of "god is not real"?

Though I identify as an atheist for the sake of simplicity, I start from an ignostic position of needing a clear definition of what does or doesn't count as one of these "god" things before I can decide whether it's even plausible. The problem is that there is no such clear definition. There's lots of them, so many that it's rarely if ever clear what someone means by the word. It's only when a clear definition of what we're talking about is provided (in this case, by you) that I can start addressing whether I firmly disbelieve it or just don't believe it, as well as the reasons why.

But since you haven't done that as of your OP, I'll cover the most common examples.

First, the Abrahamic notions of God. I say notions, plural, because there seems to be a different one for ever sect and denomination out there. Most of them assert omnipotence, omniscience, and benevolence, and then have to do an ad-hoc walking-back when they get called out on all the paradoxes that these omni-everythings produce. But even barring that, the Abrahamic God is tied to an absurd mythos, one which is heartily violated by the historic, archeological, and geological record on more points than I can count, and that's even before we get into the textual contradictions. Believers can and often do discount any (or all) parts of the scripture that are linked to these problems, but the more you do that, the less clear the definition becomes and the more we return to that problem instead. You also cited lack of evidence, which is big reason that many of us are atheists. Consider what evidence WOULD exist if the Biblical God (as actually described in the Bible) were real. People would be praying mountains into the sea and healing amputated limbs left and right. Absence of evidence IS evidence of absence when the evidence in question WOULD be present. In short, the world we see is definitely not the sort that would exist if the God of Abrahamic scripture existed.

Still other definitions -- such as a literal "god is love" assertion as being what is actually meant by the word "god" -- fall afoul of equivocation. Yes, I believe love exists. No, I don't believe that love is god. Assigning the word "god" to mean love is pure deception, since NO ONE thinks you're talking about that and only that when you use the word "god". You could just reassign the word "god" to mean "rock" and hold up a rock to prove that God exists and is your rock. To which, I reply with what I call the asshat principle: If this logic is valid, I can say the word donkey now means hat, therefore you have your head up your ass. (Though not you-you, per se, you haven't done this yet, I'm using a general sort of "you".)

Other definitions, such as a deistic creator, run afoul of a complete lack of evidence for the position in another respect. It is true that there wouldn't necessarily be any evidence for them... but there also ISN'T any evidence for them. Meaning, while I can't disprove them, I have no basis for belief in them.

I'd note that the fact that something could never be disproven, even were it false, because the very nature of the claim makes it so elusive that no disproof could ever be possible under any circumstances, is a strong reason to DISTRUST the claim, and also not to care if it's true. A real and present god doesn't need to play hide and seek.

Which brings us to the final basis for nonbelief: What I call the Leprechaun Principle. Let us suppose that God is something present in myth and fable, for which there is no evident basis for, but also no way to positively disprove it. The rational thing to do is to file it away with all other critters meeting that standard, such as fairies, unicorns, Santa Claus, and leprechauns. After all, why believe in one and not the rest if there's an equal amount of evidence for all of them? Believing this sort of god was real would require believing leprechauns were real, assuming I wasn't going to play favorites. (And if I were, I'd keep the leprechauns, because they don't have a track record of genocide and ordering rape and people tend not to murder in their name.) I'd also have to believe in untold examples of MUTUALLY CONTRADICTORY fables, wherein the existence of one would preclude the existence of another, and yet in fairness I would have to believe them both. Or, I can just not believe any of these things without evidence.

Oh, and before we get into the agnostic vs atheist definition argument, short summary. An atheist is someone who doesn't believe a god exists, and an agnostic is someone who holds some degree of uncertainty or room to reconsider the point. Someone who doesn't believe, but also holds a degree of uncertainty in that disbelief or is willing to reconsider it is therefore both an atheist and an agnostic.
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15-09-2018, 03:17 AM
RE: Why do you think god is not real?
Hello Nyloncarin ! Smile


As others have mentioned I describe myself as a "Non-thiest"

Basically I see nothing to indicate that any diety(s) exist.

Cheers! Thumbsup

Not at work
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15-09-2018, 03:32 AM (This post was last modified: 15-09-2018 04:36 AM by purpulepurpose.)
RE: Why do you think god is not real?
Eternal or long torture. There is no sin that can qualify you for endless torture. It's man made idea or God is Sadistic retard.
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15-09-2018, 04:05 AM
RE: Why do you think god is not real?
You won't like me. Remember that it is your job to prove your assertion true, we don't have to disprove it. If you say there is a god, show the evidence. If you don't, then you're just like me.
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15-09-2018, 04:30 AM
RE: Why do you think god is not real?
God is real. And it's name is Girly. Drinking Beverage

There is but one truly serious philosophical problem. - Camus
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15-09-2018, 04:46 AM
RE: Why do you think god is not real?
(15-09-2018 04:30 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  God is real. And it's name is Girly. Drinking Beverage

Hail Satan. Drinking Beverage Wink
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15-09-2018, 04:56 AM
RE: Why do you think god is not real?
God is as "real" as the Star War fans who go about using " the force".


The believers just keep hoping it' s true in spite how silly it makes them appear.




Laughat

....

I'm a double atheist. I don't believe in your god or your politician.
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15-09-2018, 05:05 AM
RE: Why do you think god is not real?
(14-09-2018 11:31 PM)Nyloncarin Wrote:  I'm trying to understand why atheists does not think god is real.

There is no good evidence to believe in any god. There are many claims but they are all based on feelings or on lack of knowledge. We do not know, for example, how the universe came to be as we see it but that means that the answer is "we do not know" and not "must be a god". You don't get to use "god" as the answer until you first demonstrate at the very least that a god can possibly exist.

Quote:I do not understand how people does not think god is real and solely based their evidence on the fact that "they haven't seen one"or "common sense" which is really not a good evidence to proof god isint real.


But you do accept that it is reasonable to think that a god does exist based on "I feel it" or "common sense"? Atheists typically do not believe because they have not been provided good reasons to believe. If you have a good reason that is based on something that is demonstrably true then please present it.

Quote:and what makes me so frustrated is that how some atheists were single mindedly clinging to science, and putting scientific knowledge above all and refuses to accept other form of knowledge.

Science works and produces reliable results. It also doesn't claim to have ultimate answers, just the best explanation given the available evidence. It is also willing to revise its conclusions if new evidence shows that it has something wrong.

Please explain what other "form of knowledge" there is. Faith does not count because faith can be used to support ANY belief and there is no way to determine which is correct. Things you "know" by faith are not known, just believed.

Quote:An good example of "things that might exist but you have no way of proofing it" is tachyon (a theoretical particle that can surpass the speed of light) if it exists, we have no way of detecting it due to its speed. So does tachyon simply does not exist because we cannot sense it? (Although possible and could exist?)

There is no problem proposing hypothetical ideas. Scientists and science-minded people do that all the time. The key is not to believe your hypothesis is true until there is evidence for it.

In the specific example, I do not believe tachyons exist because we do not have good evidence that they do. I also do not claim that they do not exist because I do not have good evidence that rules them out. They are an interesting hypothetical particle and the thing to do is try to figure out a way to test for them. When we have evidence then we can reasonably believe.

Quote:There are no way to proof god isin't real, but there aren't any reliable methods to proof god is real neither, proofing god exist/does not exist is like a solving paradox, so what gives you the thought of "god is not real"?

With no good evidence that something exists the only reasonable position is to not believe that it exists. I do not believe in gods in the same way that I do not believe in leprechauns or unicorns or vampires or ghosts. There are many stories and claims but no good evidence and the day that good evidence is provided I will change my mind.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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