Why does God have a desire or any emotions for that matter ?
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26-12-2013, 11:20 PM
RE: Why does God have a desire or any emotions for that matter ?
(26-12-2013 05:55 PM)Alla Wrote:  I will not ask for evidence as soon as you tell me that you BELIEVE that emotions are product of evolution.
But if it is not your belief then I would like to know what you know and if it is fact I will accept it as the truth.

You are scientifically illiterate and consequently you don't understand the evidence. You don't know when you should be convinced so there is no point in presenting any evidence for anything to you.

Whatever (misguided and naive) objection you offer in response to the evidence that emotions are an evolved capacity you can just as easily apply to the evidence that the kidneys are an evolved organ. You aren't presenting any sort of critique of the evidence or of evolution by natural selection you are just brushing it aside with some silly childish story.

The weakest case of the evidence that emotions are an evolved capacity is to be found in the general evidence that human beings are an evolved species.

The stronger case of the evidence that emotions are an evolved capacity is to be found in comparative neuroanatomy between reptiles and mammmals and non-human primates and primates.

But any evidence that anyone presents you just ignore so there is no point in presenting you any evidence. None of your beliefs in relation to this are evidence-based so evidence is really irrelevant.
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27-12-2013, 04:48 AM (This post was last modified: 27-12-2013 07:25 AM by IndianAtheist.)
RE: Why does God have a desire or any emotions for that matter ?
(26-12-2013 05:55 PM)Alla Wrote:  I will not ask for evidence as soon as you tell me that you BELIEVE that emotions are product of evolution.
"EVOLUTION" is a theory and a "Scientific Theory" is based on FACTS.. a lot of hard calculated and undeniable scientific facts.

Evolution takes in account just about everything that is science biochemistry,thermodynamics,anthropology,geology,paleontology,cosmology,astrophy​sics,molecular biology you name it!
Quote:But if it is not your belief then I would like to know what you know and if it is fact I will accept it as the truth.
I believe in NOTHING i know for a fact that evolution is true which is based on decades of rigorous scientific research and experimentation.
Quote:True God/Gods is/are not non-biological Being
Again making assumptions ? if God is a biological being then perhaps God is long dead because ALL Living organisms on earth eventually die.
Quote:True God/Gods has/have body
Define "True God"

Dreams/Hallucinations/delusions are not evidence
Wishful thinking is not evidence
Disproved statements&Illogical conclusions are not evidence
Logical fallacies&Unsubstantiated claims are not evidence
Vague prophecies is not evidence
Data that requires a certain belief is not evidence
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27-12-2013, 05:44 AM
RE: Why does God have a desire or any emotions for that matter ?
Alla, you don't have to be a scientist to understand evolution. You just have to be literate.

Please read this to get an overview:

evolution

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Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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27-12-2013, 07:43 AM
RE: Why does God have a desire or any emotions for that matter ?
(27-12-2013 05:44 AM)Dom Wrote:  Alla, you don't have to be a scientist to understand evolution. You just have to be literate.

Please read this to get an overview:

evolution


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27-12-2013, 01:32 PM
RE: Why does God have a desire or any emotions for that matter ?
(26-12-2013 11:07 PM)Chippy Wrote:  
(26-12-2013 05:39 PM)Alla Wrote:  It doesn't matter I still can believe that emotions have different source.
So why then ask for "examples of evolution of emotions" if you are just going to disregard whatever I post.
I didn't say that I will disregard whatever you post. I don't say that evolution of emotions is not possible. But can evolution of emotions tell me what is the initial source of emotions?
(26-12-2013 11:07 PM)Chippy Wrote:  
(26-12-2013 05:39 PM)Alla Wrote:  It is like I place a pencil in the glass with water. It(pencil) will look distorted, larger in size. But pencil is not distorted.
The same is spirit. When it is inside of the physical body it appears that it acts distorted. Emotions appear to be distorted. The more damage physical body has the more distorted actions of the spirit appear.
I hope you understand what I was trying to say.
That is neither an argument nor evidence that the brain is insufficient to account for emotions--it is just an analogy followed by an assertion.
I agree. I am just trying to explain that ability of spirit to feel, to see, to hear, to think is not distorted inside of the physical body the same as pencil is not distorted in the glass with water.
But as pencil appears to be distorted spirit's ability to feel, to see, to hear, to think only appears distorted.
I am not trying to prove anything I am only trying to explain why ability to have emotions, to think, to see, to hear depends on our physical body when spirit is inside of it.

(26-12-2013 11:07 PM)Chippy Wrote:  If emotions originated in "spirit" then the condition of the brain would have no bearing on their expression. How exactly does "spirit" interact with the brain?
This is the point that it would have bearing.
OK. Spirit has ability to think, to see, to hear, to feel, but spirit can not touch or smell, or taste.
So this is what I am trying to say: when spirit is inside of the physical body it sees this world through imperfect physical eyes, hear this world through imperfect physical ears and thinking process is going through imperfect physical brain.
Or it's like if I look through dirty/broken glasses I will see badly. My eyes are fine. My vision is fine but when my eyes see this world through dirty glasses my ability to see is bad. The same is spirit. Our physical eyes become spirit's dirty/broken glasses.
When spirit leaves physical body(dirty /broken glasses) it can see perfectly.

How does spirit interact with brain? I don't know exactly how but may be it sends some signals to physical brain and physical brain does what it does? God didn't give revelation about this. He only said that without spirit body physical body becomes dead piece of flesh.

(26-12-2013 11:07 PM)Chippy Wrote:  If the brain is necessary for their expression why isn't it also sufficient for their expression?
Because without spirit our brain is dead piece of flesh.

(26-12-2013 11:07 PM)Chippy Wrote:  What is it about emotions that demands that we need to postulate "spirit" in order to understand them?
I don't believe that we need to postulate spirit in order to understand our emotions. Our emotions are not perfect in our imperfect physical bodies and I am sure we have ability to understand them without knowledge about spirit. But we can not know right now how perfect our emotions when we are out of our physical body.

(26-12-2013 11:07 PM)Chippy Wrote:  Do we also need "spirit" to explain how the kidneys work? If not why not?
No, we don't need spirit to explain how physical body works. But we still may not know that source of intelligence in a piece of physical matter is spirit body.
Spirit body also has brain, organs, gender, form. Our physical body is expressed image of our spirit body.

(26-12-2013 11:07 PM)Chippy Wrote:  How is your argument any different from me proposing that internal combusion engines work because of "spirit" and when an engine is broken it doesn't work because the spirit of the engine can't express itself? What would giving internal combusition engines a "spirit" add to our understanding of internal combustion engines or contribute to our maintenace of them?
Spirit gives life to the body. As long as spirit is inside of the physical body this physical body lives. When physical body is damaged severely spirit lives this body. What is the point to be inside of the body that can not do anything that makes human a human? There is no point to live on earth anymore. So when physical body is severely damaged spirit may live the body. Body become dead/lifeless piece of flesh.
May be I can compare spirit to gasoline. Without gasoline car can not move. When engine is broken you don't need gasoline in your car. What is the point to put gasoline in the car with broken engine?
Again what is the point to have spirit in broken physical body?

(26-12-2013 11:07 PM)Chippy Wrote:  
(26-12-2013 05:39 PM)Alla Wrote:  I don't believe in immaterial persons. Immaterial person is fantasy.
Yes I know but the spirit which you claim is the source of emotions is an immaterial person.
Spirit body is material. It would be strange to say that spirit is immaterial when we KNOW that immaterial things do not exist in real world. Immaterial things are made up things/somebody's fantasies.
P.S. Notice not even one true Prophet of God said that spirit is something immaterial.

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27-12-2013, 01:43 PM
RE: Why does God have a desire or any emotions for that matter ?
(27-12-2013 04:48 AM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  
(26-12-2013 05:55 PM)Alla Wrote:  I will not ask for evidence as soon as you tell me that you BELIEVE that emotions are product of evolution.
"EVOLUTION" is a theory and a "Scientific Theory" is based on FACTS.. a lot of hard calculated and undeniable scientific facts.

Evolution takes in account just about everything that is science biochemistry,thermodynamics,anthropology,geology,paleontology,cosmology,astrophy​sics,molecular biology you name it!
Perfect! I have no problem with evolution. Evolution helps us to understand lot's of things.

(27-12-2013 04:48 AM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  I believe in NOTHING i know for a fact that evolution is true which is based on decades of rigorous scientific research and experimentation.
Do you KNOW FOR SURE that first ancestor of modern humans is dead physical matter? If not you don't know this for sure why not? If you know for sure how?

(27-12-2013 04:48 AM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  
(26-12-2013 05:55 PM)Alla Wrote:  True God/Gods is/are not non-biological Being
Again making assumptions ? if God is a biological being then perhaps God is long dead because ALL Living organisms on earth eventually die. Define "True God"
Very shortly - True God is intelligent Being. It has physical body of flesh and bones. It has no blood in His veins. It has something else in His veins that makes Him immortal. Gods have gender.
You look like Him, you are organized in His image and likeness.
His physical body has celestial glory. It means it is different than our physical and MORTAL bodies which is flesh, bones and BLOOD. So glory of our bodies is different. It calls telestial glory.

English is not my native language.
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27-12-2013, 02:07 PM
RE: Why does God have a desire or any emotions for that matter ?
(27-12-2013 01:43 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(27-12-2013 04:48 AM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  "EVOLUTION" is a theory and a "Scientific Theory" is based on FACTS.. a lot of hard calculated and undeniable scientific facts.

Evolution takes in account just about everything that is science biochemistry,thermodynamics,anthropology,geology,paleontology,cosmology,astrophy​sics,molecular biology you name it!
Perfect! I have no problem with evolution. Evolution helps us to understand lot's of things.

(27-12-2013 04:48 AM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  I believe in NOTHING i know for a fact that evolution is true which is based on decades of rigorous scientific research and experimentation.
Do you KNOW FOR SURE that first ancestor of modern humans is dead physical matter? If not you don't know this for sure why not? If you know for sure how?

(27-12-2013 04:48 AM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  Again making assumptions ? if God is a biological being then perhaps God is long dead because ALL Living organisms on earth eventually die. Define "True God"
Very shortly - True God is intelligent Being. It has physical body of flesh and bones. It has no blood in His veins. It has something else in His veins that makes Him immortal. Gods have gender.
You look like Him, you are organized in His image and likeness.
His physical body has celestial glory. It means it is different than our physical and MORTAL bodies which is flesh, bones and BLOOD. So glory of our bodies is different. It calls telestial glory.



Really? Really??? Do you usually get away with this stuff?Blink

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27-12-2013, 02:14 PM
RE: Why does God have a desire or any emotions for that matter ?
(26-12-2013 11:20 PM)Chippy Wrote:  
(26-12-2013 05:55 PM)Alla Wrote:  I will not ask for evidence as soon as you tell me that you BELIEVE that emotions are product of evolution.
But if it is not your belief then I would like to know what you know and if it is fact I will accept it as the truth.

You are scientifically illiterate and consequently you don't understand the evidence. You don't know when you should be convinced so there is no point in presenting any evidence for anything to you.

Whatever (misguided and naive) objection you offer in response to the evidence that emotions are an evolved capacity you can just as easily apply to the evidence that the kidneys are an evolved organ. You aren't presenting any sort of critique of the evidence or of evolution by natural selection you are just brushing it aside with some silly childish story.

The weakest case of the evidence that emotions are an evolved capacity is to be found in the general evidence that human beings are an evolved species.

The stronger case of the evidence that emotions are an evolved capacity is to be found in comparative neuroanatomy between reptiles and mammmals and non-human primates and primates.

But any evidence that anyone presents you just ignore so there is no point in presenting you any evidence. None of your beliefs in relation to this are evidence-based so evidence is really irrelevant.
I don't remember in which of my posts I ignored evidence of evolution?
If emotions have evolution and we have some evidence I don't reject that evidence.
Why would I do this?
But I do NOT BELIEVE that dead physical matter created PERFECT CONDITIONS to sustain life.
I BELIEVE that Gods prepared physical matter, made perfect conditions and then this physical matter created life. Evolution is part of creation. It prepared earth for modern forms of life. It prepared earth for Adam and Eve.
To find out what kind of creatures/species lived and evolved and how they evolved is mission of the science. And scientists do good job.

English is not my native language.
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27-12-2013, 02:59 PM
RE: Why does God have a desire or any emotions for that matter ?
(25-12-2013 04:50 AM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  Eh. you ? you're saying just being a christian makes you special in God's eyes.
I am saying this? When? Where? All people are children of God and are very special. But not all people are God's people which is house of Israel. Why? Because not all children of God want to be His people. Many people do not have opportunity to be God's people YET. But they will have this opportunity.
You are special in God's eyes. But you choose not to be become His people.
(25-12-2013 04:50 AM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  
(24-12-2013 03:23 PM)Alla Wrote:  The more you know the more you accountable. The less you know and understand the less accountable you are.
That's like saying if i don't know murder is wrong then it isn't wrong -_- that doesn't make any sense whatsoever wrong if wrong whether you know it or not.
Is it? Nobody says that if you do not know that killing is the crime then it is not wrong to kill. What I am saying that if you do not know that killing is wrong you can not be accountable before God. It doesn't mean that you were right.

(25-12-2013 04:50 AM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  
(24-12-2013 03:23 PM)Alla Wrote:  But God can not make people to be better or smarter than they have CAPACITY to be.
That's the most pathetic excuse i've ever heard you're just not gonna admit that your God's laws are not being followed anymore because they're barbaric and stupid.
Humans PROGRESS you know. The more they progress the more they are READY for HIGHER laws. There are still laws that we are NOT ready for.

(25-12-2013 04:50 AM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  Besides WASN'T YOUR GOD OMNIPOTENT ? there's no excuse for your God to be this barbaric and cruel.. UNLESS he was just a figment of some feudal psychopath's imagination (which is MOST likely the case here).
God had to deal with cruel and barbaric people. He had to deal with people that didn't know how to be kind and nice to each other. He had to deal with people who understood only "eye for eye and tooth for tooth".
(25-12-2013 04:50 AM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  Ah bullshit ! i'm pretty sure a whole frikking city of people aren't made of child molesters that's not how a city functions ! a city would fall apart in seconds if that was true.
They were idol worshippers. Part of their religion is sacrifice their children. Part of their culture was lust and shedding of blood. They were close to self destruction.

(25-12-2013 04:50 AM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  Besides i still don't see how that justifies committing war crimes like committing mass murder raping women killing children or killing pregnant women with their babies.
Remember, God was dealing with barbarians. He didn't tell house of Israel to rape women. He was not happy with them either. God never told to hate their enemies. Justice has nothing to do with hate. If we execute a criminal it is not because we hate him it is because we want to do justice.

(25-12-2013 04:50 AM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  How about i kill your children and say that my God wanted me to do that because your children were to become the next hilter and stalin ? how'd that feel huh ?
I would kill you first. And this is stupid.
God didn't tell to kill children because they will become evil people. God saved them. He took them from evil parents and placed them in a better place. What would they learn?
But this is what NOT stupid to do: if I am evil person and I teach my children to do evil things you may PREDICT that they will do bad things in their lives. You will remove them from bad/my home.

(25-12-2013 04:50 AM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  what about your christian martyrs killing hundreds and thousands of unarmed civilians INCLUDING children ??
That was wrong and that was not God's commandment

(25-12-2013 04:50 AM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  Children and innocent people are suffering anyway you're just painting christians white because you want to be on the side of the "good guys"...but THERE ARE NO "GOOD GUYS"
Christians who kill innocent people are wrong and God didn't command them to do that.

(25-12-2013 04:50 AM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  SLAVERY IS WRONG AND IMMORAL
GENOCIDE IS WRONG AND IMMORAL(there's tiny difference between "criminal Execution and barbaric holocaust style genocide)
Committing WAR crimes is IMMORAL
EXECUTING PEOPLE FOR IRRATIONAL REASONS IS IMMORAL
INDUCING PEOPLE TO COMMIT THESE CRIMES IS IMMORAL
I agree with all this.
But to kill rapists and killers of children is RIGHT thing to do.

(25-12-2013 04:50 AM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  Hmm... let's see
Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLTYour eye shall not spare, and you shall show no pity. 6 Kill old men outright, young men and maidens, little children and women,but touch no one on whom is the mark

Isaiah 13:15-18Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes

The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children


Hosea 13:16 The people of Samaria must bear their guilt,because they have rebelled against their God,They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground,their pregnant women ripped open

Numbers 31Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves(Sex slaves)


EH.. WHAT WERE YOU SAYING AGAIN ?Drinking Beverage
What I am saying is this: all those people were evil doers. Their children learned evil from them. Their children had no opportunity to know good and to do good. Their children had NO CHOICE but to be as evil and perverted as their parents. God killed parents to go to spirit prison(part of spirit world) and he killed innocent to go to paradise(good part of spirit world). If God killed only parents but let children to live this is what would happen: older children would hate those who killed their parents and they would seek revenge and they already learned too much evil. Little children would die without parents any way.
God saved all those children.
You ask for justification, I give you justification.

English is not my native language.
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27-12-2013, 03:12 PM
RE: Why does God have a desire or any emotions for that matter ?
(27-12-2013 01:43 PM)Alla Wrote:  Perfect! I have no problem with evolution. Evolution helps us to understand lot's of things.
and it also exposes the fact that none of the religious scriptures bible,quran,vedas,old testament etc were "Divinely inspired" by the God who created everything..

If that was actually true then religious scriptures wouldn't be this much scientifically inaccurate.
Quote:Do you KNOW FOR SURE that first ancestor of modern humans is dead physical matter?
err.... THAT'S NOT EVOLUTION ! that's "Abiogenesis" and no i don't believe in abiogenesis as it doesn't have as much facts supporting it as evolution does but one thing i know for certain is that everything is made of space dust ! Smile

Evolution Is merely the study of living creatures "Evolving" its NOT about the creation of life.
Quote:It has physical body of flesh and bones.
Flesh&bones are only useful on earth outside earth there is no gravity just pure vacuum and a sea of meteors and billions of stars..

I don't think a body made out of flesh&bones can even withstand the tension of the being in the vacuum of space.
Quote:It has no blood in His veins. It has something else in His veins that makes Him immortal. Gods have gender.
and what made you come to this bizarre conclusion ? Drinking Beverage
Quote:You look like Him, you are organized in His image and likeness.
Nah.. we evolved from lesser beings.
[Image: A.afarensis.jpg]
"God's Image" HA HA HA don't make me laugh ! Laughat

Its just plain narcissistic and arrogant to claim that we were created in the image of a Godly being.

Its more humbling for to think that we came from lesser beings... it makes me feel proud seeing how much my species has achieved!
Quote:His physical body has celestial glory. It means it is different than our physical and MORTAL bodies which is flesh, bones and BLOOD. So glory of our bodies is different. It calls telestial glory.
Reality says "HELLOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!"

Dreams/Hallucinations/delusions are not evidence
Wishful thinking is not evidence
Disproved statements&Illogical conclusions are not evidence
Logical fallacies&Unsubstantiated claims are not evidence
Vague prophecies is not evidence
Data that requires a certain belief is not evidence
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