Why does God have a desire or any emotions for that matter ?
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27-12-2013, 04:04 PM
RE: Why does God have a desire or any emotions for that matter ?
(27-12-2013 03:12 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  
(27-12-2013 01:43 PM)Alla Wrote:  Perfect! I have no problem with evolution. Evolution helps us to understand lot's of things.
and it also exposes the fact that none of the religious scriptures bible,quran,vedas,old testament etc were "Divinely inspired" by the God who created everything..
If that was actually true then religious scriptures wouldn't be this much scientifically inaccurate.
Scriptures are NOT scientifically inaccurate. Do you have in mind any specific book in the scriptures that has scientifically wrong information?

(27-12-2013 03:12 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  
(27-12-2013 01:43 PM)Alla Wrote:  Do you KNOW FOR SURE that first ancestor of modern humans is dead physical matter?
err.... THAT'S NOT EVOLUTION ! that's "Abiogenesis" and no i don't believe in abiogenesis as it doesn't have as much facts supporting it as evolution does but one thing i know for certain is that everything is made of space dust ! Smile
Evolution do not contradict Prophets' teaching that creation of intelligent beings or any form of life is requires involvement of intelligent beings.

(27-12-2013 03:12 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  Evolution Is merely the study of living creatures "Evolving" its NOT about the creation of life.
OK. Prophets do not contradict evolution.

(27-12-2013 03:12 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  I don't think a body made out of flesh&bones can even withstand the tension of the being in the vacuum of space.
I agree. But God's body of flesh and bones has what our bodies do not have. His body can withstand anything. It is different. If Gods said that Their bodies are exactly like our mortal bodies They wouldn't withstand.

(27-12-2013 03:12 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  Its just plain narcissistic and arrogant to claim that we were created in the image of a Godly being.
Not at all. To claim that I am a child of God is not narcissistic it is beautiful. I am child of an intelligent Being.

(27-12-2013 03:12 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  Its more humbling for to think that we came from lesser beings...
it makes me feel proud seeing how much my species has achieved!
It makes me feel proud to see what I was 10 years ago and what I am know. I am proud to see my PERSONAL achievements and not some species' achievements. And I am humble: I know that right now I am not perfect.

English is not my native language.
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27-12-2013, 05:43 PM (This post was last modified: 27-12-2013 05:51 PM by IndianAtheist.)
RE: Why does God have a desire or any emotions for that matter ?
(27-12-2013 04:04 PM)Alla Wrote:  Scriptures are NOT scientifically inaccurate. Do you have in mind any specific book in the scriptures that has scientifically wrong information?
Eh.. Yes they are ! bible,quran,vedas all of these books don't even match up with what i studied in 3rd grade 3rd GRADE !!

1) There is NO mention of germs (or any other kinds of microorganisms for that matter)

No Ancient literature quotes :-

"Diseases are caused by microorganisms and the failure of immune system" INSTEAD you'll read stuff like "Diseases are CAUSED BY DEMONS!"

2) The astronomy of Old testament is God awfully horrendous(pun intended) according to the genesis everything was created in 6 buttfucking days ! which is retarded considered Day&night pretty much only exists on earth !

Not to mention God created LIGHT before He created the SUN that's just...... unbelievably stupid even for someone in stone age ! Shocking and EARTH was Created a "Day" BEFORE SUN Was created! i could go on but simply put nothing is scientifically accurate a freaking pigeon knows better science that this !

If those supposed ancient scriptures were INDEED divinely inspired then it shouldn't have retarded,scientifically inaccurate stuff.
Quote:Evolution do not contradict Prophets' teaching that creation of intelligent beings or any form of life is requires involvement of intelligent beings.
The creationist "intelligent design" theory is a hoax and unscientific nonsense.
Quote:I agree. But God's body of flesh and bones has what our bodies do not have.
His body can withstand anything. It is different. If Gods said that Their bodies are exactly like our mortal bodies They wouldn't withstand.
i see what you're takin' about! [Image: Man-Of-Steel-Henry-Cavill-Kal_El-3.jpg]

HAIL THE SUPER LORD!! Bowing
Quote:To claim that I am a child of God is not narcissistic it is beautiful. I am child of an intelligent Being.
Nope its very egocentric and narcissistic it only shows that you need to feel like you're superior to all other beings on earth and want to pretend like your father is the creator of the universe who created everything just for humans.

if this isn't egocentric i don't know what is.
Quote:I am proud to see my PERSONAL achievements and not some species' achievements.
hey ! not everyone is a fundamentalist selfish prick like you Big Grin i am really proud of my species without their hardships i wouldn't be here.

Dreams/Hallucinations/delusions are not evidence
Wishful thinking is not evidence
Disproved statements&Illogical conclusions are not evidence
Logical fallacies&Unsubstantiated claims are not evidence
Vague prophecies is not evidence
Data that requires a certain belief is not evidence
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27-12-2013, 06:30 PM
RE: Why does God have a desire or any emotions for that matter ?
(27-12-2013 01:32 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(26-12-2013 11:07 PM)Chippy Wrote:  So why then ask for "examples of evolution of emotions" if you are just going to disregard whatever I post.
I didn't say that I will disregard whatever you post. I don't say that evolution of emotions is not possible. But can evolution of emotions tell me what is the initial source of emotions?
(26-12-2013 11:07 PM)Chippy Wrote:  That is neither an argument nor evidence that the brain is insufficient to account for emotions--it is just an analogy followed by an assertion.
I agree. I am just trying to explain that ability of spirit to feel, to see, to hear, to think is not distorted inside of the physical body the same as pencil is not distorted in the glass with water.
But as pencil appears to be distorted spirit's ability to feel, to see, to hear, to think only appears distorted.
I am not trying to prove anything I am only trying to explain why ability to have emotions, to think, to see, to hear depends on our physical body when spirit is inside of it.

(26-12-2013 11:07 PM)Chippy Wrote:  If emotions originated in "spirit" then the condition of the brain would have no bearing on their expression. How exactly does "spirit" interact with the brain?
This is the point that it would have bearing.
OK. Spirit has ability to think, to see, to hear, to feel, but spirit can not touch or smell, or taste.
So this is what I am trying to say: when spirit is inside of the physical body it sees this world through imperfect physical eyes, hear this world through imperfect physical ears and thinking process is going through imperfect physical brain.
Or it's like if I look through dirty/broken glasses I will see badly. My eyes are fine. My vision is fine but when my eyes see this world through dirty glasses my ability to see is bad. The same is spirit. Our physical eyes become spirit's dirty/broken glasses.
When spirit leaves physical body(dirty /broken glasses) it can see perfectly.

How does spirit interact with brain? I don't know exactly how but may be it sends some signals to physical brain and physical brain does what it does? God didn't give revelation about this. He only said that without spirit body physical body becomes dead piece of flesh.

(26-12-2013 11:07 PM)Chippy Wrote:  If the brain is necessary for their expression why isn't it also sufficient for their expression?
Because without spirit our brain is dead piece of flesh.

(26-12-2013 11:07 PM)Chippy Wrote:  What is it about emotions that demands that we need to postulate "spirit" in order to understand them?
I don't believe that we need to postulate spirit in order to understand our emotions. Our emotions are not perfect in our imperfect physical bodies and I am sure we have ability to understand them without knowledge about spirit. But we can not know right now how perfect our emotions when we are out of our physical body.

(26-12-2013 11:07 PM)Chippy Wrote:  Do we also need "spirit" to explain how the kidneys work? If not why not?
No, we don't need spirit to explain how physical body works. But we still may not know that source of intelligence in a piece of physical matter is spirit body.
Spirit body also has brain, organs, gender, form. Our physical body is expressed image of our spirit body.

(26-12-2013 11:07 PM)Chippy Wrote:  How is your argument any different from me proposing that internal combusion engines work because of "spirit" and when an engine is broken it doesn't work because the spirit of the engine can't express itself? What would giving internal combusition engines a "spirit" add to our understanding of internal combustion engines or contribute to our maintenace of them?
Spirit gives life to the body. As long as spirit is inside of the physical body this physical body lives. When physical body is damaged severely spirit lives this body. What is the point to be inside of the body that can not do anything that makes human a human? There is no point to live on earth anymore. So when physical body is severely damaged spirit may live the body. Body become dead/lifeless piece of flesh.
May be I can compare spirit to gasoline. Without gasoline car can not move. When engine is broken you don't need gasoline in your car. What is the point to put gasoline in the car with broken engine?
Again what is the point to have spirit in broken physical body?

(26-12-2013 11:07 PM)Chippy Wrote:  Yes I know but the spirit which you claim is the source of emotions is an immaterial person.
Spirit body is material. It would be strange to say that spirit is immaterial when we KNOW that immaterial things do not exist in real world. Immaterial things are made up things/somebody's fantasies.
P.S. Notice not even one true Prophet of God said that spirit is something immaterial.

There is no evidence for the existence of this thing you call 'spirit'. No 'life force', no élan vital.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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27-12-2013, 07:52 PM
RE: Why does God have a desire or any emotions for that matter ?
(27-12-2013 01:32 PM)Alla Wrote:  But can evolution of emotions tell me what is the initial source of emotions?

That is an absurd question that indicates that you don't understand evolution by natural selection.

Quote:I agree. I am just trying to explain that ability of spirit to feel, to see, to hear, to think is not distorted inside of the physical body the same as pencil is not distorted in the glass with water.

But you haven't explained anything. You haven't provided any evidence that "spirit" exists and you haven't demonstrated how it is necessary to explain anything.

Quote:I am not trying to prove anything I am only trying to explain why ability to have emotions, to think, to see, to hear depends on our physical body when spirit is inside of it.

If "spirit" is the source of emotions, thought, sight and hearing why do we need a brain, eyes and ears?

Quote:OK. Spirit has ability to think, to see, to hear, to feel, but spirit can not touch or smell, or taste.

Why can't "spirit" touch, smeall or taste?

Quote:So this is what I am trying to say: when spirit is inside of the physical body it sees this world through imperfect physical eyes, hear this world through imperfect physical ears and thinking process is going through imperfect physical brain.

So "spirit" is immaterial? Your use of the word "physical" implies that "spirit" is not physical. If so how would a non-physical thing see or hear? We see because light hits our retina and soundwaves strike our eardrums. Light and sound would not interact with a non-physical thing so how can it see or hear?

Quote:Or it's like if I look through dirty/broken glasses I will see badly. My eyes are fine. My vision is fine but when my eyes see this world through dirty glasses my ability to see is bad. The same is spirit. Our physical eyes become spirit's dirty/broken glasses.

Why does spirit even need our eyes or ears?

Quote:When spirit leaves physical body(dirty /broken glasses) it can see perfectly.

How do physical particles/waves (light and sound) interact with a non-physical entity?

Quote:I don't know exactly how but may be it sends some signals to physical brain and physical brain does what it does? God didn't give revelation about this. He only said that without spirit body physical body becomes dead piece of flesh.

The funddamental problem is how can a non-physical thing like "spirit" in any way interact with something physical. If "spirit" sends signals to the physical brain then these would be detectable because they would have to be physical signals as the brain is a physical organ. Also how would a non-physical thing originate physical signals?

Quote:Because without spirit our brain is dead piece of flesh.

What evidence can you present that "spirit" animates the brain?

Quote:I don't believe that we need to postulate spirit in order to understand our emotions. Our emotions are not perfect in our imperfect physical bodies and I am sure we have ability to understand them without knowledge about spirit. But we can not know right now how perfect our emotions when we are out of our physical body.

If emotions can be understood without reference to "spirit" then what possible role could "spirit" have in emoting?

Quote:No, we don't need spirit to explain how physical body works.

The brain is a physical organ just like the kidneys.

Quote:But we still may not know that source of intelligence in a piece of physical matter is spirit body.

But postulating a "spirit body" doesn't add anything to our understanding of how the body works. There is nothing about the human body that requires us to postulate a "spirit body" to understand it. The idea has no explanatory value, it is a redundancy.

Quote:Spirit body also has brain, organs, gender, form. Our physical body is expressed image of our spirit body.

That is unfalsifiable and at the same time it not only lacks explanatory value it also multiplies the things that we need to explain.

Quote:Spirit gives life to the body. As long as spirit is inside of the physical body this physical body lives. When physical body is damaged severely spirit lives this body. What is the point to be inside of the body that can not do anything that makes human a human? There is no point to live on earth anymore. So when physical body is severely damaged spirit may live the body. Body become dead/lifeless piece of flesh.

But I can say the same thing about the internal combustion engine:

Spirit gives life to the engine. As long as spirit is inside the physical engine this physical engine operates. When the physical engine is damaged severely spirit leaves the engine. The physical engine is the physical expression of the spirit engine. The spirit engine is perfect but when inside the physical engine it needs the parts of the physical engine to function.

How and why is this any different? No one can disprove that the internal combustion engine has a spirit.

Quote:May be I can compare spirit to gasoline. Without gasoline car can not move. When engine is broken you don't need gasoline in your car. What is the point to put gasoline in the car with broken engine?

No, my spirit engine is perfectly analogous to your claim that the physical body is animated by a spirit.

Quote:Again what is the point to have spirit in broken physical body?

What is the point to have spirit in broken internal combustion engine?

Quote:Spirit body is material. It would be strange to say that spirit is immaterial when we KNOW that immaterial things do not exist in real world. Immaterial things are made up things/somebody's fantasies.
P.S. Notice not even one true Prophet of God said that spirit is something immaterial.

If spirit is material then why are you contrasting it with the physical body?
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27-12-2013, 11:21 PM
RE: Why does God have a desire or any emotions for that matter ?
(27-12-2013 06:30 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(27-12-2013 01:32 PM)Alla Wrote:  I didn't say that I will disregard whatever you post. I don't say that evolution of emotions is not possible. But can evolution of emotions tell me what is the initial source of emotions?
I agree. I am just trying to explain that ability of spirit to feel, to see, to hear, to think is not distorted inside of the physical body the same as pencil is not distorted in the glass with water.
But as pencil appears to be distorted spirit's ability to feel, to see, to hear, to think only appears distorted.
I am not trying to prove anything I am only trying to explain why ability to have emotions, to think, to see, to hear depends on our physical body when spirit is inside of it.

OK. Spirit has ability to think, to see, to hear, to feel, but spirit can not touch or smell, or taste.
So this is what I am trying to say: when spirit is inside of the physical body it sees this world through imperfect physical eyes, hear this world through imperfect physical ears and thinking process is going through imperfect physical brain.
Or it's like if I look through dirty/broken glasses I will see badly. My eyes are fine. My vision is fine but when my eyes see this world through dirty glasses my ability to see is bad. The same is spirit. Our physical eyes become spirit's dirty/broken glasses.
When spirit leaves physical body(dirty /broken glasses) it can see perfectly.

How does spirit interact with brain? I don't know exactly how but may be it sends some signals to physical brain and physical brain does what it does? God didn't give revelation about this. He only said that without spirit body physical body becomes dead piece of flesh.

Because without spirit our brain is dead piece of flesh.

I don't believe that we need to postulate spirit in order to understand our emotions. Our emotions are not perfect in our imperfect physical bodies and I am sure we have ability to understand them without knowledge about spirit. But we can not know right now how perfect our emotions when we are out of our physical body.

No, we don't need spirit to explain how physical body works. But we still may not know that source of intelligence in a piece of physical matter is spirit body.
Spirit body also has brain, organs, gender, form. Our physical body is expressed image of our spirit body.

Spirit gives life to the body. As long as spirit is inside of the physical body this physical body lives. When physical body is damaged severely spirit lives this body. What is the point to be inside of the body that can not do anything that makes human a human? There is no point to live on earth anymore. So when physical body is severely damaged spirit may live the body. Body become dead/lifeless piece of flesh.
May be I can compare spirit to gasoline. Without gasoline car can not move. When engine is broken you don't need gasoline in your car. What is the point to put gasoline in the car with broken engine?
Again what is the point to have spirit in broken physical body?

Spirit body is material. It would be strange to say that spirit is immaterial when we KNOW that immaterial things do not exist in real world. Immaterial things are made up things/somebody's fantasies.
P.S. Notice not even one true Prophet of God said that spirit is something immaterial.

There is no evidence for the existence of this thing you call 'spirit'. No 'life force', no élan vital.
OK

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28-12-2013, 12:12 AM
RE: Why does God have a desire or any emotions for that matter ?
(27-12-2013 07:52 PM)Chippy Wrote:  But you haven't explained anything. You haven't provided any evidence that "spirit" exists and you haven't demonstrated how it is necessary to explain anything.
Oh, you don't have to believe that spirits exist. I only share with you what God revealed through His Prophets. I thought you understood this.

(27-12-2013 07:52 PM)Chippy Wrote:  Why can't "spirit" touch, smeall or taste?
Oh, spirits also can not have sex.
Spirits don't need food. That is why they don't need to taste or smell.

(27-12-2013 07:52 PM)Chippy Wrote:  So "spirit" is immaterial?
Spirit is material. Only it is not physical matter. Spirit is organized from spiritual matter.
(27-12-2013 07:52 PM)Chippy Wrote:  Your use of the word "physical" implies that "spirit" is not physical. If so how would a non-physical thing see or hear?
We see because light hits our retina and soundwaves strike our eardrums. Light and sound would not interact with a non-physical thing so how can it see or hear?
I don't know what spiritual matter is. I don't know how spiritual matter interact with physical matter. God didn't explain it. I just know from the revelations that all physical things are organized in image and likeness of spiritual things. So, there are two kinds of matter - physical matter and spiritual matter. And both those matters are eternal, never were created and never will be destroyed.
You don't have to believe this. I only share with you what God had revealed to His Prophets.

(27-12-2013 07:52 PM)Chippy Wrote:  Why does spirit even need our eyes or ears?
So he(spirit) or she(she) can see and hear when is outside of the physical body.

(27-12-2013 07:52 PM)Chippy Wrote:  How do physical particles/waves (light and sound) interact with a non-physical entity?
I have no idea. God didn't explain this yet.

(27-12-2013 07:52 PM)Chippy Wrote:  The funddamental problem is how can a non-physical thing like "spirit" in any way interact with something physical.
I don't know if it is a problem because I don't know nature of spirit matter. I wish I knew. But according to the revelations physical matter/physical body only then can have intelligence and life when it interacts with spirit matter/has spirit body.
(27-12-2013 07:52 PM)Chippy Wrote:  What evidence can you present that "spirit" animates the brain?
None. I only share with you what God revealed. You don't have to believe it of course.
(27-12-2013 07:52 PM)Chippy Wrote:  If emotions can be understood without reference to "spirit" then what possible role could "spirit" have in emoting?
It is source of emotions. I have a question. Let's say I am physical matter. What is the source of envy or pride? Why do physical matter need to have pride and envy?
(27-12-2013 07:52 PM)Chippy Wrote:  But postulating a "spirit body" doesn't add anything to our understanding of how the body works. There is nothing about the human body that requires us to postulate a "spirit body" to understand it. The idea has no explanatory value, it is a redundancy.
I agree with you. We don't need to know about spirit in order to understand how physical body works.
We need to know for a different reason that we are spirits in physical bodies.
(27-12-2013 07:52 PM)Chippy Wrote:  Spirit gives life to the body. As long as spirit is inside of the physical body this physical body lives. When physical body is damaged severely spirit lives this body. What is the point to be inside of the body that can not do anything that makes human a human? There is no point to live on earth anymore. So when physical body is severely damaged spirit may live the body. Body become dead/lifeless piece of flesh.

(27-12-2013 07:52 PM)Chippy Wrote:  If spirit is material then why are you contrasting it with the physical body?
Because physical matter and spirit matter differ from each other. Physical matter has no intelligence. Spirit matter has intelligence.
Man with spirit inside has intelligence. Man without spirit inside is dead meat.

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28-12-2013, 12:36 AM
RE: Why does God have a desire or any emotions for that matter ?
(27-12-2013 05:43 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  Eh.. Yes they are ! bible,quran,vedas all of these books don't even match up with what i studied in 3rd grade 3rd GRADE !!
Biblical Prophets do not contradict modern science.

(27-12-2013 05:43 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  1) There is NO mention of germs (or any other kinds of microorganisms for that matter)
Ancient prophets didn't know nature of germs. Even if they knew they wouldn't be able to explain it to people of their times.

(27-12-2013 05:43 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  No Ancient literature quotes :-

"Diseases are caused by microorganisms and the failure of immune system" INSTEAD you'll read stuff like "Diseases are CAUSED BY DEMONS!"
may be for the lack of right terms they called microbes "demons?Smile
I call them evil creatures.(just kidding)

(27-12-2013 05:43 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  2) The astronomy of Old testament is God awfully horrendous(pun intended) according to the genesis everything was created in 6 buttfucking days ! which is retarded considered Day&night pretty much only exists on earth !
Prophets are not scientists. Moses didn't not try to explain exactly how God created things. His purpose was to explain who was involved in creation. "Day" is symbol. "Morning" is symbol and Prophet didn't explain how long was each day of creation. May be billions of years. May be less, may more.

(27-12-2013 05:43 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  Not to mention God created LIGHT before He created the SUN that's just...... unbelievably stupid even for someone in stone age ! Shocking and EARTH was Created a "Day" BEFORE SUN Was created! i could go on but simply put nothing is scientifically accurate a freaking pigeon knows better science that this !
Prophet didn't say that God created light. I don't see a problem with placing earth next to another source of light first and later placing it in solar system.

(27-12-2013 05:43 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  If those supposed ancient scriptures were INDEED divinely inspired then it shouldn't have retarded,scientifically inaccurate stuff.
You said that God created light. But Prophet never said this. What you say is not in the Scripture.


(27-12-2013 05:43 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  
Alla Wrote:To claim that I am a child of God is not narcissistic it is beautiful. I am child of an intelligent Being.
Nope its very egocentric and narcissistic it only shows that you need to feel like you're superior to all other beings on earth and want to pretend like your father is the creator of the universe who created everything just for humans.
Your thoughts are not my thoughts. This what Satan wants people to feel and to think. To be a child of God means to have ability to be kind, to be caring, to be honest, to be creative, to be virtuous, to be benevolent, to be chaste....

(27-12-2013 05:43 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  
Alla Wrote:I am proud to see my PERSONAL achievements and not some species' achievements.
hey ! not everyone is a fundamentalist selfish prick like you Big Grin i am really proud of my species without their hardships i wouldn't be here.
It is OK. But it is totally NORMAL to be proud of yourself when you achieve great things. Personal progress is something that you may praise yourself for a little bit. There is nothing wrong with that.

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28-12-2013, 01:30 AM (This post was last modified: 28-12-2013 01:33 AM by Chippy.)
RE: Why does God have a desire or any emotions for that matter ?
(28-12-2013 12:12 AM)Alla Wrote:  Oh, you don't have to believe that spirits exist. I only share with you what God revealed through His Prophets. I thought you understood this.

I know I don't have to believe that "spirit" exist. That is besides the point.

Quote:Spirit is material. Only it is not physical matter. Spirit is organized from spiritual matter.

That is self-contradictory. If something is material then it is physical, i.e. it has an extension in space. All matter--by definition--is physical. If something is not composed of matter, if it is not physical, it must be immaterial.

Quote:I don't know what spiritual matter is. I don't know how spiritual matter interact with physical matter. God didn't explain it. I just know from the revelations that all physical things are organized in image and likeness of spiritual things. So, there are two kinds of matter - physical matter and spiritual matter. And both those matters are eternal, never were created and never will be destroyed.
You don't have to believe this. I only share with you what God had revealed to His Prophets.

The phrase "spiritual matter" is incoherent, it is the same as "spherical cube" and "married bachelor".

What evidence do you have that God has revealed this to His prophets?

Quote:So he(spirit) or she(she) can see and hear when is outside of the physical body.

This is also self-contradictory. You said earlier that "spirit" can see and hear and that the physical body only impairs those senses. If "spirit" can see and hear then it would have no need for physical ears and eyes.

Quote:I have no idea. God didn't explain this yet.

No it is because it is an incoherent idea. There is no way that "spirit"--something immaterial--can interact with matter and vice-versa.

Quote:I don't know if it is a problem because I don't know nature of spirit matter. I wish I knew. But according to the revelations physical matter/physical body only then can have intelligence and life when it interacts with spirit matter/has spirit body.

This is just incoherent nonsense. "Spirit matter" is a self-contradictory phrase.

Quote:None. I only share with you what God revealed. You don't have to believe it of course.

If you have no evidence and the notion of "spirit" has no explanatory value why do you believe in it?

Quote:It is source of emotions.

No, there is no evidence that emotions don't originate in the brain and there is no need to postulate anything beyond the brain to account for emotions.

Quote:I have a question. Let's say I am physical matter. What is the source of envy or pride?

Your brain.

Quote:Why do physical matter need to have pride and envy?

Only a very small subset of physical matter experiences pride and envy, namely some mammals. Some mammals evolved emotions such as pride and envy because they motivate certain types of behaviour that promotes survival and hence reproduction.

Here is an introduction but I am doubtful you will understand it. See also this, this and this.

Quote:We need to know for a different reason that we are spirits in physical bodies.

If we need to know that we are spirits in physical bodies then why is there no evidence that this is the case? Why isn't something so important--according to you--discoverable?

Quote:Because physical matter and spirit matter differ from each other. Physical matter has no intelligence. Spirit matter has intelligence.
Man with spirit inside has intelligence. Man without spirit inside is dead meat.

So intelligence also comes from the "spirit"? What then is the role of the cerebrum? Is it there just for decoration?
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28-12-2013, 05:49 AM
RE: Why does God have a desire or any emotions for that matter ?
Quote:Alla Wrote:
But can evolution of emotions tell me what is the initial source of emotions?

I am going to try to tackle that for you, Alla. I think you are a smart person who has some erroneous embedded reference points in their thinking. So I think you deserve some explanations. I like that you try to make sense of it all.

Emotions are the response to recurring events, events that have recurred often enough for the organism experiencing them to start embedding a consistent response in their genetic makeup.

The flight or fight response, for example, is based on fear. Fear is an emotion that alerts the mind to a critical situation. Fear is to the mind what pain is to the body - it is an alarm system. You don't always know the source of your fear - it can be what is commonly called a "gut reaction" without any visible cause. It is triggered because we are hardwired, or have evolved to registering a danger in the particular situation we happen to find ourselves in. Some of these emotions are specific to your personal ancestry, their strength and how easily and when they are triggered vary from person to person. When the trigger situation occurs, your body releases adrenalin, which makes you highly alert and focused and ready to fight or flee.

Ideally fear is truth based, but there are also irrational fears, a bad genetic development in a particular area. It is up to your conscious mind to deal with the fear - discount it, act on it, or in case of irrational fear, fix the issue through therapy.

This is exactly the same with pain, the physical cousin of fear. Pain can have a proper cause, or be due to a malfunction of the nervous system.

Emotions can have clearly recognizable origins or be at best murky, because they are not the product of your conscious mind but of your genetic makeup, a situational trigger to release certain chemicals so that we can better deal with a given situation. There are emotions most beings share - such as love when they see a small child, this applies even cross species. Most people will feel love when they see a baby human, or a puppy or kitten. Animals are quite often known to adopt babies of a different species, as are humans. This is preservation of the species and preservation of life, hardwired into us over generations and generations and thousands of years of evolution.

While for the most part emotions are desirable as they trigger these enabling chemicals, people will have varying strengths of emotions and the amount of released chemicals will vary. That is how evolution works - the person who is wrought with fear all the time as well as the one who has no fear at all are extremes and most likely will not be passing on their genes. That is what genetic selection is - weeding out of genetic combinations that are not functional. That is how we evolve.

The above are my personal conclusions drawn from a lot of varied reading and I don't have any scientific papers to link.

[Image: dobie.png]

Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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28-12-2013, 06:39 AM (This post was last modified: 28-12-2013 06:45 AM by IndianAtheist.)
RE: Why does God have a desire or any emotions for that matter ?
(28-12-2013 12:36 AM)Alla Wrote:  Biblical Prophets do not contradict modern science.
Yes they do ! the scriptures are scientifically illiterate!
Quote:Ancient prophets didn't know nature of germs.
but the ONE WHO CREATED THEM DOES ! God should've told them about them if God really inspired the words in the bible.
Quote:Even if they knew they wouldn't be able to explain it to people of their times.
OH Really ?? they're the freaking people who're claiming to have a direct connection with the creator of the universe! i don't think telling them about microorganisms should be a problem!
Quote:I call them evil creatures.(just kidding)
No they're not evil they just want to live.. the one who's really evil is the one who CREATED them.
[Image: 018-Lepers-Cured.jpg]
Quote:Prophets are not scientists.
HA HA HA i know [Image: no-shit-sherlock-2.jpg] ! they were not scientists but they had direct connection WITH THE CREATOR ! they don't need to know anything ! If God really advocated the holy scriptures then it should be 100% accurate Stuff which goes along with modern science!
Quote:"Day" is symbol. "Morning" is symbol and Prophet didn't explain how long was each day of creation. May be billions of years. May be less, may more.
Or maybe its just a bunch of nonsensical scribblings of bronze age idiots ?
Quote:Prophet didn't say that God created light.
No they make it clear that light existed before SUN and other stars which is asinine considering the modern science we know.
Quote:I don't see a problem with placing earth next to another source of light first and later placing it in solar system.
THERE IS NO OTHER SOURCE FOR LIGHT! our planetary system is called "SOLAR SYSTEM" for a reason.
Quote: What you say is not in the Scripture.
I believe its the quote "LET There be Light"

Quote:This what Satan wants people to feel and to think. To be a child of God means to have ability to be kind, to be caring, to be honest, to be creative, to be virtuous, to be benevolent, to be chaste....
Stop lapsing back into your delusions! i'm trying to have a reasonable conversation here. Drinking Beverage
Quote:It is OK. But it is totally NORMAL to be proud of yourself when you achieve great things.
I never said it isn't normal to be proud of one's achievements.

its just that.... belittling your own damn species is kinda selfish.

Dreams/Hallucinations/delusions are not evidence
Wishful thinking is not evidence
Disproved statements&Illogical conclusions are not evidence
Logical fallacies&Unsubstantiated claims are not evidence
Vague prophecies is not evidence
Data that requires a certain belief is not evidence
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