Why does God have a desire or any emotions for that matter ?
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28-12-2013, 07:11 AM
RE: Why does God have a desire or any emotions for that matter ?
(28-12-2013 12:36 AM)Alla Wrote:  Biblical Prophets do not contradict modern science.

They do. On so many occasions that it would fall on deaf ears if we tried to explain them all to you.

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28-12-2013, 10:40 AM (This post was last modified: 28-12-2013 10:49 AM by Alla.)
RE: Why does God have a desire or any emotions for that matter ?
(28-12-2013 01:30 AM)Chippy Wrote:  That is self-contradictory. If something is material then it is physical, i.e. it has an extension in space. All matter--by definition--is physical. If something is not composed of matter, if it is not physical, it must be immaterial.
Again, there is no such thing as immaterial thing.
According to the revelation there are 2 kinds of matter - physical matter and spiritual matter. That is all I know. God didn't reveal much about spirit matter.

(28-12-2013 01:30 AM)Chippy Wrote:  The phrase "spiritual matter" is incoherent, it is the same as "spherical cube" and "married bachelor".
I understand what you are saying. But if spirits exist they have to be organized from something otherwise they are not real. Those elements from which spirits are organized are not known to humans.
We don't even know everything about physical matter. We don't know anything about spiritual matter.
P.S. Many people divide things on material and immaterial(spiritual). It means that they divide things on real things(material) and unreal things(immaterial).
God told His people that there are things physical and there are things spiritual. Both are real and organized of something.
Things that we can observe now are physical things, things that we can not observe now we call spiritual things.

(28-12-2013 01:30 AM)Chippy Wrote:  What evidence do you have that God has revealed this to His prophets?
What evidence can we have? Prophets speak, write and we learn. Then Holy Ghost can testify personally that what Prophets say/write is true.
So, all we have now is witnesses.

(28-12-2013 01:30 AM)Chippy Wrote:  This is also self-contradictory. You said earlier that "spirit" can see and hear and that the physical body only impairs those senses. If "spirit" can see and hear then it would have no need for physical ears and eyes.
I agree. The reason why we need physical ears and eyes is this: because of physical eyes and physical ears we(spirits) cannot see spirit world and we can not hear spirit world. This is the point. We can not see and hear spirit world now.
That is why we have this obstacle -"dirty/broken glasses- physical eyes" and "broken device -physical ears".

(28-12-2013 01:30 AM)Chippy Wrote:  This is just incoherent nonsense. "Spirit matter" is a self-contradictory phrase.
OK. Lets take thoughts. Do thoughts exist in real world? If they do they are material. If they don't exist they are immaterial.
If thoughts exist in real world and they are material then I have a question: are thoughts physical matter?

(28-12-2013 01:30 AM)Chippy Wrote:  If you have no evidence and the notion of "spirit" has no explanatory value why do you believe in it?
It is easy for me to understand that there are 2 kinds of matter. Physical matter that we can observe now because we have physical bodies and spiritual matter that we can not observe now because we have physical bodies.
And I do have Witness. It is Holy Ghost. When God let we can see and hear Him with our spiritual eyes and spiritual ears.

(28-12-2013 01:30 AM)Chippy Wrote:  No, there is no evidence that emotions don't originate in the brain and there is no need to postulate anything beyond the brain to account for emotions.
I know. In order to know about physical things we do not need to know about spiritual things. Emotions. Are they real. If they are real they are organized of something. What is this?

(28-12-2013 01:30 AM)Chippy Wrote:  
Alla Wrote:Let's say I am physical matter. What is the source of envy or pride?
Your brain.
OK
(28-12-2013 01:30 AM)Chippy Wrote:  
Alla Wrote:Why do physical matter need to have pride and envy?
Only a very small subset of physical matter experiences pride and envy, namely some mammals. Some mammals evolved emotions such as pride and envy because they motivate certain types of behaviour that promotes survival and hence reproduction.
Why do I have envy of someone's fancy car or house when I already have mine but not so fancy? then I suffer/self-destruction
How is it important for my survival?
Pride. I am not talking about being proud of yourself for achieving something.
I am talking about this: if someone offends me I choose to be offended then I suffer/self-destruction
Why do I(physical matter) need this?

(28-12-2013 01:30 AM)Chippy Wrote:  If we need to know that we are spirits in physical bodies then why is there no evidence that this is the case? Why isn't something so important--according to you--discoverable?
Personally you can have this evidence. When Holy Ghost testifies to you.

(28-12-2013 01:30 AM)Chippy Wrote:  So intelligence also comes from the "spirit"? What then is the role of the cerebrum? Is it there just for decoration?
No. For the same reason why we have physical eyes and ears we have physical brain. Physical brain helps spirit to forget about spirit world. Physical brain is like dirty glasses - an obstacle.
If physical brain has damages it becomes even harder for the spirit/person to show intelligence.
Plants and animals have spirit or intelligence. But because their brain size or absence of the brain their intelligence in physical bodies is very, very limited.
So, when spirit is inside of the physical body it looses certain abilities and gain certain abilities.
Inside of physical body spirit can start to experience new things - taste, touch, have sex/children. But he/she forgets about spirit world and can not do what he/she can do as spirit.
P.S. I only shared with you what we know. But I do not ask you to believe. I may lie to you. Right?[/color]

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28-12-2013, 11:01 AM
RE: Why does God have a desire or any emotions for that matter ?
(28-12-2013 05:49 AM)Dom Wrote:  
Quote:Alla Wrote:
But can evolution of emotions tell me what is the initial source of emotions?

I am going to try to tackle that for you, Alla. I think you are a smart person who has some erroneous embedded reference points in their thinking. So I think you deserve some explanations. I like that you try to make sense of it all.

Emotions are the response to recurring events, events that have recurred often enough for the organism experiencing them to start embedding a consistent response in their genetic makeup.

The flight or fight response, for example, is based on fear. Fear is an emotion that alerts the mind to a critical situation. Fear is to the mind what pain is to the body - it is an alarm system. You don't always know the source of your fear - it can be what is commonly called a "gut reaction" without any visible cause. It is triggered because we are hardwired, or have evolved to registering a danger in the particular situation we happen to find ourselves in. Some of these emotions are specific to your personal ancestry, their strength and how easily and when they are triggered vary from person to person. When the trigger situation occurs, your body releases adrenalin, which makes you highly alert and focused and ready to fight or flee.

Ideally fear is truth based, but there are also irrational fears, a bad genetic development in a particular area. It is up to your conscious mind to deal with the fear - discount it, act on it, or in case of irrational fear, fix the issue through therapy.

This is exactly the same with pain, the physical cousin of fear. Pain can have a proper cause, or be due to a malfunction of the nervous system.

Emotions can have clearly recognizable origins or be at best murky, because they are not the product of your conscious mind but of your genetic makeup, a situational trigger to release certain chemicals so that we can better deal with a given situation. There are emotions most beings share - such as love when they see a small child, this applies even cross species. Most people will feel love when they see a baby human, or a puppy or kitten. Animals are quite often known to adopt babies of a different species, as are humans. This is preservation of the species and preservation of life, hardwired into us over generations and generations and thousands of years of evolution.

While for the most part emotions are desirable as they trigger these enabling chemicals, people will have varying strengths of emotions and the amount of released chemicals will vary. That is how evolution works - the person who is wrought with fear all the time as well as the one who has no fear at all are extremes and most likely will not be passing on their genes. That is what genetic selection is - weeding out of genetic combinations that are not functional. That is how we evolve.

The above are my personal conclusions drawn from a lot of varied reading and I don't have any scientific papers to link.
Thank you, Dom.
If this is true I accept it.

English is not my native language.
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28-12-2013, 11:31 AM
RE: Why does God have a desire or any emotions for that matter ?
(28-12-2013 06:39 AM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  Yes they do ! the scriptures are scientifically illiterate!
Prophets do not discuss science and that is why they do not contradict anything.

(28-12-2013 06:39 AM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  [/quote="Alla"]Ancient prophets didn't know nature of germs.
but the ONE WHO CREATED THEM DOES ! God should've told them about them if God really inspired the words in the bible.[/quote]
Why would He do this if it is NOT mission of the Prophets to teach science?
Why would God tell people about germs if this is their mission to figure out on their own? Why do we have illness? So we can learn how to overcome them. How? We have to work hard and search. This way we PROGRESS.

(28-12-2013 06:39 AM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  [quote="Alla"]Even if they knew they wouldn't be able to explain it to people of their times.
OH Really ?? they're the freaking people who're claiming to have a direct connection with the creator of the universe! i don't think telling them about microorganisms should be a problem![/quote]
Why would God tell us things that we can and have to figure out on our own?
God only explain things that we can not know on our own.

(28-12-2013 06:39 AM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  If God really advocated the holy scriptures then it should be 100% accurate Stuff which goes along with modern science!
First, books of the Bible that we have are not originals. They are copies of copies of some other copies. Copies can have mistakes.
Second, Prophets have to be accurate only about God's JUDICIAL LAWS. If Prophet is wrong about natural laws God will not correct him. Wrong understanding of natural laws will not effect salvation.
And God sends smart spirits who become scientist in this life here on earth and do their mission - teach natural laws.

(28-12-2013 06:39 AM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  [quote="Alla"]"Day" is symbol. "Morning" is symbol and Prophet didn't explain how long was each day of creation. May be billions of years. May be less, may more.
Or maybe its just a bunch of nonsensical scribblings of bronze age idiots ? [/quote]
May be. You can say that. But it doesn't contradict science.

(28-12-2013 06:39 AM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  [quote="Alla"]Prophet didn't say that God created light.
No they make it clear that light existed before SUN and other stars which is asinine considering the modern science we know.[/quote]
Before stars of our galaxy(including our Sun) were created other galaxies already existed.

(28-12-2013 06:39 AM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  [quote="Alla"]"I don't see a problem with placing earth next to another source of light first and later placing it in solar system.
THERE IS NO OTHER SOURCE FOR LIGHT! our planetary system is called "SOLAR SYSTEM" for a reason.
Quote: What you say is not in the Scripture.
Earth was created before solar system was created(see Scripture). Before our Son existed many other source of light existed(see Scriptures)Could it be in different galaxies?
(28-12-2013 06:39 AM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  "I believe its the quote "LET There be Light"
I came into dark room, said "Let there be light" and turned on the switch. Did I create light?
Or I place a candle in dark room. Did I create light?
Earth was in dark place. God said "Let there be light" and placed Earth in the place where there is light - place where He lives(His Kingdom). Then God prepared Earth for arrival of modern forms of life. Billions of years God was preparing the Earth.
Then He created Solar system. But Erath still was in God's Kingdom.
Then God placed Adam and Eve on Earth. After Adam and Eve fell God placed Earth in Solar system.

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28-12-2013, 02:15 PM (This post was last modified: 28-12-2013 02:20 PM by IndianAtheist.)
RE: Why does God have a desire or any emotions for that matter ?
(28-12-2013 11:31 AM)Alla Wrote:  Prophets do not discuss science and that is why they do not contradict anything.
YES THEY DO don't lie! Bible or any religious scripture for that matter makes unsubstantiated and unscientific claims about how the universe works.

Modern Science has disproved all of the claims.. so doesn't that also prove those people were liars?

Science is NOT a subject only to be taught it schools.. its THE ACTUAL REALITY of how everything works! and if bible(or any religious scripture)fails to actually match up with how the reality works then its made apparent then there is no God advocating those scriptures.

So if they can't even figure out how the solar system works,they can freaking forget about telling us on who the creator of the universe is!
Quote:Why would He do this if it is NOT mission of the Prophets to teach science?
It has nothing to do with "teaching" anything its basic logic..

If they claim that they know who created the sun the moon and the earth they better make sure they know what planets and stars actually are!
Quote:Why would God tell people about germs if this is their mission to figure out on their own?
oooh a cross-question ! l'll play !

Why did God Create microorganisms which plagues other organisms ?

Why did God tell bullshit ways to kill those microorganisms like "use bird's blood to cure leprosy" ?? WTF ?? and he expects others to believe in that book ?

Why did God let millions of humans suffer with those microorganisms ?

Just what kind of sadistic freak orchestrates such misery ?

[b]You just have to accept the fact that bible is Scientifically,Rationally,logically and morally ILLITERATE[/b].
Quote:Why do we have illness?
I'll answer ! we have illness because microorganisms exist and they want to live too just like us.

And you claim that a God is the one who created everything.. so that only begs the question why the fu*k did God create those horrible,incurable,deadly parasites and diseases !?
I know.. because he doesn't exist! wasn't that simple ?
Quote:Why would God tell us things that we can and have to figure out on our own?
Do you realize what "Figure out on our own" means ? it means MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of people dying before someone finally finds a cure !

that's not a damage which you can just shrug off like nothing ! that's millions of people dying just because God is a cruel bastard who likes creating those microorganisms.
Quote:God only explain things that we can not know on our own.
That's nonsense!

What kind of sadistic freak does it take to create microorganisms which cannot be killed until millions and MILLIONS of humans haven't died ??
Quote:First, books of the Bible that we have are not originals. They are copies of copies of some other copies. Copies can have mistakes.
Okay then can we just put those books in the dustbin and call it a day then ?
Quote:Second, Prophets have to be accurate only about God's JUDICIAL LAWS.
LOL that's a big FAIL too most of God's "Rules" are not in use today..
Quote:If Prophet is wrong about natural laws God will not correct him.
Are you fucking kidding me ? i'm just... speechless.

the only possible conclusion from here is that your God is an utter DUMBASS! he gives his messages to dumbasses who can't even count 5.. i'm sorry... you really believe a God this STUPID exists ? Shocking geez
Quote:Wrong understanding of natural laws will not effect salvation.
No it proves that God WHO CREATED THOSE SAME NATURAL LAWS DID NOT INSPIRE THE BIBLE !
Quote:And God sends smart spirits who become scientist in this life here on earth and do their mission - teach natural laws.
There is no spirit and there is no God.
Quote:But it doesn't contradict science.
No absurd stories like noah's ark and the creation of universe sure does spit in the face of science.
Quote:Before stars of our galaxy(including our Sun) were created other galaxies already existed.
eh.. that still doesn't solve the problem of earth and life being created BEFORE sun or the possibility of light existing without sun.

Light needs a source to exist it cannot "Exist" without a particle emitting it and that's what the bible explicitly states about "Separating light from darkness" as if they both are mutually exclusive whereas the fact is that light is just waves of radiation and there are other types of radiations we cannot see so does that make them not exist ? no they exist and they are not visible to our eyes. [Image: Visible-spectrum.jpeg]
Quote:Earth was created before solar system was created(see Scripture).
that's impossible.. without sun's gravitational pull earth would drift away in space and the age of earth indicates that earth and sun are about the same age 4.54 billion years.
Quote:Could it be in different galaxies?
Or could it be that those desert dwellers were just making this stuff up ? wonder if anyone presumes this possibility.Rolleyes
Quote:"I came into dark room, said "Let there be light" and turned on the switch. Did I create light?
No but that indicates that light existed before SUN which is asinine considering there is nothing even close to anything like Sun in our solar system right now -_-
Quote:Or I place a candle in dark room. Did I create light?
Nope the candle did ! the candle is the source for the light.. but there can't be light without Sun or any other source of light.
Quote:Earth was in dark place. God said "Let there be light" and placed Earth in the place where there is light - place where He lives(His Kingdom). Then God prepared Earth for arrival of modern forms of life. Billions of years God was preparing the Earth.
Then He created Solar system. But Erath still was in God's Kingdom.
Then God placed Adam and Eve on Earth. After Adam and Eve fell God placed Earth in Solar system.
You really expect me to take this seriously ? Laughat

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Disproved statements&Illogical conclusions are not evidence
Logical fallacies&Unsubstantiated claims are not evidence
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Data that requires a certain belief is not evidence
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28-12-2013, 07:49 PM
RE: Why does God have a desire or any emotions for that matter ?
(28-12-2013 02:15 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  
(28-12-2013 11:31 AM)Alla Wrote:  Prophets do not discuss science and that is why they do not contradict anything.
YES THEY DO don't lie! Bible or any religious scripture for that matter makes unsubstantiated and unscientific claims about how the universe works.
Really? Where? I mean which prophet? And what does he say about how it works?

(28-12-2013 02:15 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  If they claim that they know who created the sun the moon and the earth they better make sure they know what planets and stars actually are!
May be they did know some basics about stars and planets. The most important thing that prophets have to teach is who God is, and what we have to do to become like Him and have eternal life. Their point is who caused this world to be not how it works. How it works we can figure out on our own.


(28-12-2013 02:15 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  
(28-12-2013 11:31 AM)Alla Wrote:  Why would God tell people about germs if this is their mission to figure out on their own?
oooh a cross-question ! l'll play !
Why did God Create microorganisms which plagues other organisms ?
So, we can learn how to fight this "enemy". All bad things that happens here we will call symbolically "enemy". Any illness is bad thing/evil. It destroys us. When we learn how to overcome it we PROGRESS.
The reason why we have to KNOW EVIL so we can have an opportunity TO GROW/TO PROGRESS and to go on PERFECTION.

(28-12-2013 02:15 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  Why did God tell bullshit ways to kill those microorganisms like "use bird's blood to cure leprosy" ?? WTF ?? and he expects others to believe in that book ?
God did it. We can not do it. He knows more then we know.

(28-12-2013 02:15 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  Why did God let millions of humans suffer with those microorganisms ?
Because we are here TO KNOW not only good but EVIL also. This way we become like God/Gods. When we know evil we have an opportunity to become BETTER and PROGRESS.

(28-12-2013 02:15 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  Just what kind of sadistic freak orchestrates such misery ?

There is no way that without evil you can progress.

(28-12-2013 02:15 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  
Quote:Why do we have illness?
I'll answer ! we have illness because microorganisms exist and they want to live too just like us.
AMEN. And when we fight them we LEARN MORE and we PROGRESS.

(28-12-2013 02:15 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  And you claim that a God is the one who created everything.. so that only begs the question [size=medium][b]why the fu*k did God create those horrible,incurable,deadly parasites and diseases !?
I already answered. When we overcome evil we grow and learn and progress.
I have to go. I will answer to the rest of your post later.

English is not my native language.
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29-12-2013, 04:28 AM (This post was last modified: 29-12-2013 05:04 AM by IndianAtheist.)
RE: Why does God have a desire or any emotions for that matter ?
(28-12-2013 07:49 PM)Alla Wrote:  Really? Where? I mean which prophet? And what does he say about how it works?
What do you think i'm talking about here ?? the sun blaming diseases on "Demons" the shape of earth being a circle ! the global flood all are scientifically wrong.

Quote:May be they did know some basics about stars and planets.
No they didn't... they thought that stars were those tiny little dots in sky which were made in 1 day by God... which is nonsense considering the size of our universe.
Quote:The most important thing that prophets have to teach is who God is
Yes i know its their delusions.
Quote:Their point is who caused this world to be not how it works. How it works we can figure out on our own.
Again the point went over your head or perhaps you're just ignoring that point.
Quote:So, we can learn how to fight this "enemy".
okay.. JUST STOP... oh gosh you can have your imaginary friend!

But please stop projecting your fantasy into reality.. IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.
Quote:Any illness is bad thing/evil. It destroys us.
For me,the root cause of any problem is the ACTUAL problem.

In this case if God creates those evil things.. HE is the root cause for all EVIL simple as that.
Quote:God did it. We can not do it. He knows more then we know.
Which God ? cus' i don't think the God who created our universe had ANYTHING to do with the one who wrote the bible.
Quote:Because we are here TO KNOW not only good but EVIL also
That's really funny,stop making excuses and honestly accept the fact that bible is unscientific&barbaric nonsense that way i'd at least respect you for your intellectual honesty.
Quote:There is no way that without evil you can progress.
Again you're not being intellectually honest,you're just making up irrelevant excuses.
Quote:I already answered.
no you didn't ! you just made up weak excuses on behalf of God it goes along with the lines of "God works in mysterious ways" or "Slavery,rape,genocide and baby killing is OKAY because God commanded it"

Dreams/Hallucinations/delusions are not evidence
Wishful thinking is not evidence
Disproved statements&Illogical conclusions are not evidence
Logical fallacies&Unsubstantiated claims are not evidence
Vague prophecies is not evidence
Data that requires a certain belief is not evidence
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