Why does God have a desire or any emotions for that matter ?
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22-12-2013, 10:48 AM (This post was last modified: 22-12-2013 10:52 AM by Alla.)
RE: Why does God have a desire or any emotions for that matter ?
(21-12-2013 09:15 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(21-12-2013 08:06 PM)Alla Wrote:  I agree that God never changes. He is always kind, always good, always righteous, always honest, always forgiving, always just, always merciful, always creating things.
But what this has to do with His glory? His glory is increasing. But His personality is always the same. It doesn't change.
For the rest of the post: I will just ignore the ignorance.
Equivocation and the moving of goal posts. Intellectually dishonest and vapid.
What is so dishonest? You gave me an argument that God never changes.
I gave you an argument: He doesn't change because His personality is always the same. He is honest. It doesn't change. He never lies. He is kind. It doesn't change. He is always kind. And He has many more virtues that will never change.
But it doesn't mean that HIS GLORY, NOT Him, but HIS GLORY can not increase.
I bet you don't even know what it means "increase of the glory"

(21-12-2013 09:15 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  You also don't know a damn thing about your book, your are just plain making stuff up as you go.
Oh!

(21-12-2013 09:15 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  If he is always kind, just, and merciful would you kindly explain in exactly what way is God's EXPLICIT instructions regarding the moral correctness of slavery as just, kind, and merciful and ONLY how it is just, kind, and merciful no fucking equivocations.
Slavery is evil and curse. We are here on Earth TO KNOW GOOD AND EVIL.
Do you remember story about that tree of knowledge of good and EVIL?
In order to become like God we are learning about all kinds of evil including slavery.
Slavery was a punishment or JUSTICE for broken law.
Are you against Justice? Are you against punishment for breaking the law? Isn't it fair? to pay for breaking the law?

(21-12-2013 09:15 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  Summery: Please show how Slavery (NOT indentured servitude), which is wholeheartedly endorsed by your god, is just, kind, and merciful without equivocation.
It was Justice and Mercy.
Justice- people broke covenants(agreement)/LAWS and were punished/lost freedom. One of the consequences of sin is pains of hell. Slavery is hell.
One of the consequences for breaking the law is loosing FREEDOM.
Did you know that?
Mercy - He gave rules how to treat slaves as fairly as possible. And not to treat them like... whatever.

(21-12-2013 09:15 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  And the rest was not ignorance, it was condescending and rightfully so, but it was not ignorance. Your cult writings treat blacks as inferior, treats women as inferior, Native Americans as inferiors and so on and..
Again, I am ignoring the ignorance.

(21-12-2013 09:15 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  I would be delighted to prove it with your own damn Book of Mormon. DELIGHTED.
Sure, the same like you proved with BoM that God can not increase in glory?Smile

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22-12-2013, 01:05 PM
RE: Why does God have a desire or any emotions for that matter ?
(22-12-2013 10:30 AM)Alla Wrote:  
(21-12-2013 09:19 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  That's not possible. Mercy is an act that involves the suspension of justice.

Exactly. That is why if God forgives it will be Mercy but it will be no Justice. And if God punishes it will be Justice but then it will be no Mercy.
But there is a solution to this problem. Atonement resolves it.
Atonement satisfies Mercy and Justice at the same time.
How? I bet you don't know the answer.

It's like each post you make is completely segregated in your mind from every other post you make. It's really hard to have a conversation with you when you don't even consistently follow your OWN arguments.

You make a claim that God is ALWAYS merciful and ALWAYS just, when it's pointed out to you that this is a logical impossibility you throw another word on top "atonement" and act like that magically solves the paradox. If I was to show how that does not help at all with the paradox you would throw another assertion on top of that assertion then another then another....
Infinite Mercy and Infinite Justice are paradoxical and can not be resolved. I don't care what dishonest assertion you pull out of your ass, it remains dishonest no matter how many times you repeat it.
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22-12-2013, 01:31 PM (This post was last modified: 22-12-2013 01:41 PM by IndianAtheist.)
RE: Why does God have a desire or any emotions for that matter ?
(21-12-2013 08:45 PM)Alla Wrote:  No He doesn't change. God Yahweh is ALWAYS Justice and ALWAYS Mercy.
you can't be absolutely certain of anything.. saying "Always" is just a stretch considering the fact that many of God's commandments make little to no sense like the one "Thou shall have no other gods before me!" like gimme a break!

So what if i did ? is that hurting someone ? geez for an omnipotent being Christian God sure is more insecure than my bipolar girlfriend.
Quote:In OT books we see that God is not only Mercy but He is Justice also.
Eh.. mercy ? for what ? like what did humans ever do to an egomaniacal omnipotent being ? i just don't get why God has to forgive or punish us for anything.

What's so righteous about an omnipotent being who sits back and commands humans to kill other humans ?

How just is that being who makes a cycle of life so horrible&unfair then only considers to cherrypick the ones that meet his criteria of interest ??

You know? Light Yamagi is the character that comes to my mind when i try to conceptualize the biblical God literally or metaphorically.

In case you don't watch death note,light yagami is a master manipulator who poses like an innocent everyday guy but inside he's just a self righteous psychopath with too much power just like the biblical God.
Quote:In OT God saved His people many times(showed Mercy)
What do you mean by "his" people ? isn't everything alive technically "His" people ?

I'd also like to quote your older post
Quote:God is EVERYTHING? What is this suppose to mean? How someone can be everything? Are we talking about some kind of magic?
Well, magic is something that do not exist in REAL world/worlds.
You seem to not realize that omnipotence literally means ability to do anything.. and omniscience means ability to know everything and in case if you hadn't noticed there isn't really much of a difference between Supernatural and Magic.

any concept that disregards natural laws is considered non-existent,unreal,fictional,magical or "Supernatural"
Quote:>P.S.When Gods have got those attributes They were not Gods yet
> Gods only continue to have those attributes when They become Gods/progress to become Gods.
>Gods have children because having children brings them happiness
>The more children Gods have the more They progress in eternity
> The difference between humans and Gods is this: their attributes are in the state of perfection
> All intelligent beings/Beings have emotions
> The moment when God can not have happiness any more is the moment when He becomes devil(death). The whole point to become God is to have ETERNAL HAPPINESS
>He worked very hard to become God, He was perfecting Himself. He became perfect
>As soon as Gods stop obeying eternal laws they stop being Gods
I'm sorry THIS IS NOT MENTIONED IN THE BIBLE whatever you're saying is backed up by NOTHING you're just making vague baseless assumptions.
Quote:There is only one god that doesn't know any more what happiness is. it is Devil/Satan/Lucifer
I'm seriously getting sick of your silly childish black&white view of morality.
Quote:If you do not accept Christ you will not follow His instructions how to become perfect. If you do not follow those instructions you will NOT be perfect. If you are not perfect you can not be part of perfect world
SO perfect that you can see your family and countless other people burn in hell for not believing n Christ ? that's some price to pay
Quote:have FAITH in Christ
I'm sorry that's like asking a blind kid to hit a bull's eye i have no reason to have faith in Christ.

How about you have faith in Lord Krishna or Allah and follow his instruction by which you will learn how to be become perfect? Would you ? then why do you expect me to do that ?
Quote:To force to do good/obey laws is EVIL THING
Ah.. WHAT !? HA HA HA that's the most hilarious thing i've read in a while.. taxes are "Forced" upon you and so are all the moral obligations by everyone around you and is that an "Evil" thing ?? i don't think so..

its the only thing keeping the world from sinking into anarchy and chaos.
Quote:Gods or INTELLIGENT BEINGS that have no purposes is something that do not exist
BINGO ! that's exactly why i'm an atheist the concept "God" doesn't have even 1% of convincing logic or reason behind it.
Quote:Are you against Justice? Are you against punishment for breaking the law? Isn't it fair? to pay for breaking the law?
No i'm against tyranny and dictatorship !




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Disproved statements&Illogical conclusions are not evidence
Logical fallacies&Unsubstantiated claims are not evidence
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Data that requires a certain belief is not evidence
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22-12-2013, 01:55 PM
RE: Why does God have a desire or any emotions for that matter ?
(22-12-2013 01:31 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  
(21-12-2013 08:45 PM)Alla Wrote:  No He doesn't change. God Yahweh is ALWAYS Justice and ALWAYS Mercy.
you can't be absolutely certain of anything.. saying "Always" is just a stretch considering the fact that many of God's commandments make little to no sense like the one "Thou shall have no other gods before me!" like gimme a break!

So what if i did ? is that hurting someone ? geez for an omnipotent being Christian God sure is more insecure than my bipolar girlfriend.
Quote:In OT books we see that God is not only Mercy but He is Justice also.
Eh.. mercy ? for what ? like what did humans ever do to an egomaniacal omnipotent being ? i just don't get why God has to forgive or punish us for anything.

What's so righteous about an omnipotent being who sits back and commands humans to kill other humans ?

How just is that being who makes a cycle of life so horrible&unfair then only considers to cherrypick the ones that meet his criteria of interest ??

You know? Light Yamagi is the character that comes to my mind when i try to conceptualize the biblical God literally or metaphorically.

In case you don't watch death note,light yagami is a master manipulator who poses like an innocent everyday guy but inside he's just a self righteous psychopath with too much power just like the biblical God.
Quote:In OT God saved His people many times(showed Mercy)
What do you mean by "his" people ? isn't everything alive technically "His" people ?

I'd also like to quote your older post
Quote:God is EVERYTHING? What is this suppose to mean? How someone can be everything? Are we talking about some kind of magic?
Well, magic is something that do not exist in REAL world/worlds.
You seem to not realize that omnipotence literally means ability to do anything.. and omniscience means ability to know everything and in case if you hadn't noticed there isn't really much of a difference between Supernatural and Magic.

any concept that disregards natural laws is considered non-existent,unreal,fictional,magical or "Supernatural"
Quote:>P.S.When Gods have got those attributes They were not Gods yet
> Gods only continue to have those attributes when They become Gods/progress to become Gods.
>Gods have children because having children brings them happiness
>The more children Gods have the more They progress in eternity
> The difference between humans and Gods is this: their attributes are in the state of perfection
> All intelligent beings/Beings have emotions
> The moment when God can not have happiness any more is the moment when He becomes devil(death). The whole point to become God is to have ETERNAL HAPPINESS
>He worked very hard to become God, He was perfecting Himself. He became perfect
>As soon as Gods stop obeying eternal laws they stop being Gods
I'm sorry THIS IS NOT MENTIONED IN THE BIBLE whatever you're saying is backed up by NOTHING you're just making vague baseless assumptions.
Quote:There is only one god that doesn't know any more what happiness is. it is Devil/Satan/Lucifer
I'm seriously getting sick of your silly childish black&white view of morality.
Quote:If you do not accept Christ you will not follow His instructions how to become perfect. If you do not follow those instructions you will NOT be perfect. If you are not perfect you can not be part of perfect world
SO perfect that you can see your family and countless other people burn in hell for not believing n Christ ? that's some price to pay
Quote:have FAITH in Christ
I'm sorry that's like asking a blind kid to hit a bull's eye i have no reason to have faith in Christ.

How about you have faith in Lord Krishna or Allah and follow his instruction by which you will learn how to be become perfect? Would you ? then why do you expect me to do that ?
Quote:To force to do good/obey laws is EVIL THING
Ah.. WHAT !? HA HA HA that's the most hilarious thing i've read in a while.. taxes are "Forced" upon you and so are all the moral obligations by everyone around you and is that an "Evil" thing ?? i don't think so..

its the only thing keeping the world from sinking into anarchy and chaos.
Quote:Gods or INTELLIGENT BEINGS that have no purposes is something that do not exist
BINGO ! that's exactly why i'm an atheist the concept "God" doesn't have even 1% of convincing logic or reason behind it.
Quote:Are you against Justice? Are you against punishment for breaking the law? Isn't it fair? to pay for breaking the law?
No i'm against tyranny and dictatorship !




Great clip! I hope Alla watches it.

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22-12-2013, 02:06 PM
RE: Why does God have a desire or any emotions for that matter ?
Allah sucks! Allah doesn't feel good...

Allah is not good for my Hedonistic pleasure.

Allah can shove it!

In all honesty I think I absolutely Hate Allah...

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22-12-2013, 02:56 PM
RE: Why does God have a desire or any emotions for that matter ?
(22-12-2013 01:31 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  
(21-12-2013 08:45 PM)Alla Wrote:  No He doesn't change. God Yahweh is ALWAYS Justice and ALWAYS Mercy.
you can't be absolutely certain of anything.. saying "Always" is just a stretch considering the fact that many of God's commandments make little to no sense like the one "Thou shall have no other gods before me!" like gimme a break!
So what if i did ? is that hurting someone ? geez for an omnipotent being Christian God sure is more insecure than my bipolar girlfriend.
You can have any gods you want. That commandment was not given to you. It was ans still is given only to those people who make COVENANTS with God.
You are not under the law because you never made a covenant with God Yahweh.
So, You are free like a bird.Smile

(22-12-2013 01:31 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  Eh.. mercy ? for what ? like what did humans ever do to an egomaniacal omnipotent being ?
They constantly break eternal laws. Breaking laws has one consequence - punishment or justice. Why? because it is FAIR. Do you have something against the fairness?
(22-12-2013 01:31 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  i just don't get why God has to forgive or punish us for anything.
Again, breaking laws leads to ACCOUNTABILITY. Do you have something against ACCOUNTABILITY?

(22-12-2013 01:31 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  What's so righteous about an omnipotent being who sits back and commands humans to kill other humans ?
Justice. Justice is righteousness. When courts (earthly judges or jurors) rule to kill evil criminals(other humans) it calls - justice. And it is righteous thing to do.

(22-12-2013 01:31 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  How just is that being who makes a cycle of life so horrible&unfair then only considers to cherrypick the ones that meet his criteria of interest ??
Wrong. Not who meets His criteria but those who break laws.

(22-12-2013 01:31 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  I'd also like to quote your older post:"God is EVERYTHING? What is this suppose to mean? How someone can be everything? Are we talking about some kind of magic?
Well, magic is something that do not exist in REAL world/worlds.
You seem to not realize that omnipotence literally means ability to do anything.. and omniscience means ability to know everything [/quote]
OK. Can I pick up and move a house from one place to another? The answer is "yes". I can do it with some heavy equipment. I am omnipotent. I am so powerful that I can even move houses.
May be God meant that He is omnipotent this way? There are no obstacles for Him.
So, do we have words of detailed explanation of God Yahweh's power?

(22-12-2013 01:31 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  and in case if you hadn't noticed there isn't really much of a difference between Supernatural and Magic.
God Yahweh never used word "supernatural". I don't even know what it is? Supernatural things do NOT exist in real world.
"I can move a house from one spot to another." WOW! Is this something supernatural?

(22-12-2013 01:31 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  any concept that disregards natural laws is considered non-existent,unreal,fictional,magical or "Supernatural"
I agree. God Yahweh and His prophets do not talk about those kind of things. At least I do not know about them.

(22-12-2013 01:31 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  ALLA:"P.S.When Gods have got those attributes They were not Gods yet
> Gods only continue to have those attributes when They become Gods/progress to become Gods.
>Gods have children because having children brings them happiness
>The more children Gods have the more They progress in eternity
> The difference between humans and Gods is this: their attributes are in the state of perfection
> All intelligent beings/Beings have emotions
> The moment when God can not have happiness any more is the moment when He becomes devil(death). The whole point to become God is to have ETERNAL HAPPINESS
>He worked very hard to become God, He was perfecting Himself. He became perfect
>As soon as Gods stop obeying eternal laws they stop being Gods"

[/b][/color]
I'm sorry THIS IS NOT MENTIONED IN THE BIBLE whatever you're saying is backed up by NOTHING you're just making vague baseless assumptions.[/quote]
OK

ALLA said:"P.S.When Gods have got those attributes They were not Gods yet
> Gods only continue to have those attributes when They become Gods/progress to become Gods.[/quote]
BIBLE says: Jesus Christ didn't sit on the throne with God Father and did not have a crown BEFORE He completed His mission.
Jesus PROGRESSED form one GLORY(no throne no crown) to another GLORY(throne and crown)

ALLA said:">Gods have children because having children brings them happiness
>The more children Gods have the more They progress in eternity
BIBLE says:"God Father has children and they bring Him joy, and they are His HERITAGE. The more children God has the more HERITAGE He has. The more heritage someone has the more glory he has. More heritage = progression.

ALLA said:"> The difference between humans and Gods is this: their attributes are in the state of perfection
> All intelligent beings/Beings have emotions"
BIBLE says:" God is perfect, mortals are not perfect.
God is intelligent Being(He talks, makes decisions) and He has emotions(He feels).

ALLA said:"> The moment when God can not have happiness any more is the moment when He becomes devil(death). The whole point to become God is to have ETERNAL HAPPINESS
>He worked very hard to become God, He was perfecting Himself. He became perfect
>As soon as Gods stop obeying eternal laws they stop being Gods"
BIBLE says: that God is righteous and that anybody who makes sin becomes fallen. So, if God makes sin He falls. Fallen god became devil according to the Bible.



(22-12-2013 01:31 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  ALLA:"If you do not accept Christ you will not follow His instructions how to become perfect. If you do not follow those instructions you will NOT be perfect. If you are not perfect you can not be part of perfect world"

SO perfect that you can see your family and countless other people burn in hell for not believing n Christ ? that's some price to pay [/b][/size]
Quote:have FAITH in Christ
I'm sorry that's like asking a blind kid to hit a bull's eye i have no reason to have faith in Christ.
I never said anything about burning in hell. I said that nobody can become perfect as Father if do not follow Christ.
P.S. All those who never heard the Gospel and didn't have an opportunity to follow Christ will have this opportunity in spirit world. But don't tell me that it is not in the Bible. Because it is in the Bible.
And in hell there is no fire because there is no light in hell. Light has nothing to do with darkness.
Real hell is OUTER DARKENESS and a very called place. Do you remember that OUTER DARKENSS is mentioned in the Bible?


(22-12-2013 01:31 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  How about you have faith in Lord Krishna or Allah and follow his instruction by which you will learn how to be become perfect? Would you ? then why do you expect me to do that ?
It is OK. You can do what ever you want when you don't know about TRUE GOD.
But you will have an opportunity in spirit world to accept Christ. Gospel was preached by Christ in spirit world between His death and resurrection. Do you know where it is in the Bible?

(22-12-2013 01:31 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  To force to do good/obey laws is EVIL THING
Ah.. WHAT !? HA HA HA that's the most hilarious thing i've read in a while.. taxes are "Forced" upon you and so are all the moral obligations by everyone around you and is that an "Evil" thing ?? i don't think so..[/quote]
I was talking about God. If God forces He is evil. Men's laws are not God's laws. Men's ideals are not God's ideals. Men are NOT perfect that is why their laws are NOT perfect. If we keep men's laws we are doing the right thing.

(22-12-2013 01:31 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  Are you against Justice? Are you against punishment for breaking the law? Isn't it fair? to pay for breaking the law?
No i'm against tyranny and dictatorship ![/quote]
Oh! When and what God ever forced to do something?
But if you make by your own decision a contract(covenant) with Him then you are OBLIGATE YOURSELF to do something for God and God obligates Himself to do something for you. If you break the agreement you have to be accountable.
If you don't want to be accountable do not make contract.

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22-12-2013, 03:02 PM
RE: Why does God have a desire or any emotions for that matter ?
(22-12-2013 01:55 PM)Dom Wrote:  Great clip! I hope Alla watches it.
I did. It was entertaining.
But did it say WHY ants(humans) are on earth?
This clip reflects someone's very wrong understanding of the Bible.
So, WHY are we(ants) here?

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22-12-2013, 03:07 PM
RE: Why does God have a desire or any emotions for that matter ?
(22-12-2013 03:02 PM)Alla Wrote:  So, WHY are we(ants) here?

Does there have to be a reason?

The universe does not care about us, at all. It does not have the sentient capability to care whether we live or die.

We are here because we sprung from the natural order of evolution as the fittest species to survive due to our capability for intelligence.

Theists seem to erroneously think that we are here because some higher being must care for us.
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22-12-2013, 05:16 PM
RE: Why does God have a desire or any emotions for that matter ?
(22-12-2013 03:07 PM)Foxen Wrote:  
(22-12-2013 03:02 PM)Alla Wrote:  So, WHY are we(ants) here?
Does there have to be a reason?
The reason why I asked that question is this:
if we know why God sent us here we will know and understand why there is evil and why God of this world acts the way He acts.

(22-12-2013 03:07 PM)Foxen Wrote:  The universe does not care about us, at all. It does not have the sentient capability to care whether we live or die.
Hmm, may be that is why she(universe/physical matter) didn't create humans, animals, plants? Universe/nature/physical matter doesn't need all this. So, why bother and create what she doesn't need?
Nature/universe/ physical matter doesn't need oasis in the middle of the desert. But intelligent beings do. And there is a reason why intelligent beings need to turn desert into oasis.

(22-12-2013 03:07 PM)Foxen Wrote:  We are here because we sprung from the natural order of evolution as the fittest species to survive due to our capability for intelligence.
May be you are right but you do NOT know that. But I can NOT believe that physical matter(universe) would create something USUFUL while she doesn't need anything USEFUL.
Oasis in the desert is useful. And it is created for the purpose by intelligent beings. Planet Earth is useful. Why does universe create something useful(planet Earth or OASIS in the middle of nowhere) while she doesn't need it?

(22-12-2013 03:07 PM)Foxen Wrote:  Theists seem to erroneously think that we are here because some higher being must care for us.
I agree. This is wrong opinion.

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22-12-2013, 05:28 PM
RE: Why does God have a desire or any emotions for that matter ?
(22-12-2013 05:16 PM)Alla Wrote:  if we know why God sent us here we will know and understand why there is evil and why God of this world acts the way He acts.

There is no god. Therefore, there is no reason to wonder anything about god unless one merely wants to discuss the fictional character from the fictional book.

(22-12-2013 05:16 PM)Alla Wrote:  So, why bother and create what she doesn't need?

You are erroneously attributing sentience to that which has none. When you learn that there is no god, then you can understand that we were not created by anything sentient whatsoever. We are merely byproducts of evolution that was kick-started by a big bang.

(22-12-2013 05:16 PM)Alla Wrote:  May be you are right but you do NOT know that.

Yes, I can know what I know. It is called the comprehension of science.
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