Why does God have the right to kill?
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15-06-2012, 12:21 PM (This post was last modified: 15-06-2012 12:25 PM by kineo.)
RE: Why does God have the right to kill?
(15-06-2012 12:07 PM)Xinoftruden Wrote:  
(15-06-2012 12:01 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  Because some people want to know the truth?

Why the hell would you keep believing if you found out it was a lie?

Why help a idea that has cause more suffering that any ANY harsh government in the world through out it's history.


Suffering is not a fixed value. What I think is horrible may be common place to another.

How many governments have religious members. How many laws have direct ties to religions. There is religon is most governments. Some of teh wrongs people attribute to religion were made possible through the government.

^see that, I'm sorry about it. (as in sorry I said it)

I do not think it is a lie remember. However you do and thats fine. Belief in fairytales in not mandatory, but I like mine. It's no so much a belief as mean treating the bible like and equation and canceling out points with otehrs until I have the remainder which I try to understand. (btw I have a hard time making sense)

_____________

I need someone to help me decide when I have completely lost a debate some one help.

When you mix religion and government it can become difficult to determine the inspiration for deeds done. I can see that as a web of an argument that would be difficult to untangle.

Religion specifically can be used as an excuse or a catalyst for for both good and bad deeds (or positive and negative, constructive and destructive, etc.). Even so, in every event it is people who do these things- not a supernatural power. Religion can be used to put up a buffer against argument, with the excuse of divine inspiration being the motivation for the deed. "God spoke to me and told me we needed to bomb ____ in order to protect ourselves from their growing threat." "We all know that God does not approve of the ______ lifestyle, and as long as our policy allows this then we are at odds with the will of God and we do not fall under his favor."

These types of arguments become more difficult without the use of religion. Without religion if you want to prevent gay marriage, then you need another justification. What justification is there without religion? There is none. So you'd have to express your bigotry openly and [hopefully] face the shame head on.

That's not to say that terrible acts will never again be committed by a government if religious control is not available, but it eliminates a powerful excuse from the book of available excuses in every government handbook.

That's just part of the overall argument, though.
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15-06-2012, 05:48 PM
RE: Why does God have the right to kill?
God being perfect is meaningless imo. Given the fact that he essentially decides he's right and it just happens to be his nature. You'd have to call god good if he killed someone and then saved another. How is it credible in anyway to say something is good if it does the complete opposite of one action and receive the same amount of praise. As soon as we say god is good perfect blah blah blah, we attach the general human conceptions of those things otherwise it descends to 'god is good just because he is'. It isn't exactly an argument people want to use.

Without the ability to be something other than the good (for this example) you aren't doing anything. You're just being you. I don't see how that has any meaning in regards to god. I remember WLC tried countering such an example by stating that a triangle can only ever have 180 degrees and nothing else. Otherwise it wouldn't be a triangle.

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15-06-2012, 05:58 PM
RE: Why does God have the right to kill?
(14-06-2012 08:22 AM)Chujutsu Wrote:  I was debating with a friend, and she told me that God has the right to kill since he was the one who gave life, and so, he can take away life.

I've been thinking that God had been immoral since he killed so many people when he got Joshua to lead an army to take the Promised Land. My friend's argument makes sense to me, but I'd like to ask you guys for your thoughts as well.

Well, since I never gave Him the right to kill you have my permission to arrest Him and try Him in a court of law.
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15-06-2012, 06:32 PM
RE: Why does God have the right to kill?
(15-06-2012 05:58 PM)Scarlet Pimpernel Wrote:  
(14-06-2012 08:22 AM)Chujutsu Wrote:  I was debating with a friend, and she told me that God has the right to kill since he was the one who gave life, and so, he can take away life.

I've been thinking that God had been immoral since he killed so many people when he got Joshua to lead an army to take the Promised Land. My friend's argument makes sense to me, but I'd like to ask you guys for your thoughts as well.

Well, since I never gave Him the right to kill you have my permission to arrest Him and try Him in a court of law.
You've got to find him, first. No one has.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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15-06-2012, 07:04 PM (This post was last modified: 15-06-2012 07:13 PM by Scarlet Pimpernel.)
RE: Why does God have the right to kill?
(15-06-2012 06:32 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(15-06-2012 05:58 PM)Scarlet Pimpernel Wrote:  Well, since I never gave Him the right to kill you have my permission to arrest Him and try Him in a court of law.
You've got to find him, first. No one has.

Ah! That proves His guilt of course!
If He had nothing to fear He wouldn't have to lead an elusive fugitive's life, forever on the run, always hiding and disguising Himself as some weird apparition.
But apparently He does. That's as good as a confession.
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29-06-2012, 11:34 AM
RE: Why does God have the right to kill?
It's SIMPLE. God is the exact definition of a crazy dictator. You have to listen to him, but hypocritical things DON'T MATTER.
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29-06-2012, 04:19 PM
RE: Why does God have the right to kill?
Santa Claus is a perfect being.
He decided to kill sereral of his elves just because he felt like it.
Do we prosecute Santa? How?
The elves are his property (Santa is a slave owner of a class of disadvantaged little people), so he should be able to do with his property as he chooses.
Looks like Santa gets a pass.

The old gods are dead, let's invent some new ones before something really bad happens.
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29-06-2012, 05:12 PM
RE: Why does God have the right to kill?
(14-06-2012 08:22 AM)Chujutsu Wrote:  I was debating with a friend, and she told me that God has the right to kill since he was the one who gave life, and so, he can take away life.

I've been thinking that God had been immoral since he killed so many people when he got Joshua to lead an army to take the Promised Land. My friend's argument makes sense to me, but I'd like to ask you guys for your thoughts as well.
http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?t...imitations

I got this from a christian apologist. Just shows you how they try to redefine everything to make god work. I'm sure I don't have to point out the bad logic here.

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29-06-2012, 07:49 PM
RE: Why does God have the right to kill?
Being a powerful entity doesn't grant you any rights. If anything being powerful should fill you with more responsibility if you are a person with good morals.
Anyone who thinks that the mighty have the right to end anyone's life is buying into the whole Lord / Peasant dichotomy of life. He is our Lord. He can do to us as he wills because he is our Lord. Lords have the right to treat the peasants anyway they so choose. It's written in the book, but our Lord doesn't let us learn how to read so we must take his word for it. Did I mention that he is our Lord ?

When you give someone else power over you, that person doesn't have to be powerful at all.

When you create a god in your mind, it is powerful beyond measure because you need it to be. It can do everything I can imagine, but when someone asks you why can't it do this, then you have to make up a reason why it WON'T. Not that it can't, but it WON'T because of some reason. It's mysterious.

Also, there are no such things as god given rights. None of us has any true rights that are granted to us simply because we are alive.
Any rights we have are rights that we give each other in a social contract so that we can live together in relative peace.

Anyone can kill another person if they so choose, but there are consequences.
My morality is the conscious consideration of the consequences of my actions.
If a god exists and makes the choice to do something horrible, there will be consequences. Saying it's part of his plan only adds the qualifier of premeditation.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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