Why does he always need to be eternal
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26-08-2014, 11:15 AM
Why does he always need to be eternal
The theists that argue the kalam and none Kalam cosmological argument always make the claim that the creator must be eternal.

Why do they even do that?

The Universe is about 14 B years old.

Can they just say God is 20 B years old and he will die in 200 B more (after the universe is gone).

Why does he even need to be eternal in their argument?

Oh shit here is me trying to make sense of their non sense.

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26-08-2014, 11:21 AM
RE: Why does he always need to be eternal
Because if he's finite, he's not omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient etc...

This stuff ultimately undermines their argument.

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26-08-2014, 11:23 AM
RE: Why does he always need to be eternal
(26-08-2014 11:15 AM)proplayer44 Wrote:  ...
Why do they even do that?
...

Ah, yes, indeed... the eternal question.

(26-08-2014 11:15 AM)proplayer44 Wrote:  ...
Oh shit here is me trying to make sense of their non sense.

Hmmm. Probably best you stop doing that.

Wink

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26-08-2014, 11:35 AM
RE: Why does he always need to be eternal
(26-08-2014 11:15 AM)proplayer44 Wrote:  The theists that argue the kalam and none Kalam cosmological argument always make the claim that the creator must be eternal.

Why do they even do that?

The Universe is about 14 B years old.

Can they just say God is 20 B years old and he will die in 200 B more (after the universe is gone).

Why does he even need to be eternal in their argument?

Oh shit here is me trying to make sense of their non sense.

If god is not eternal, then you get stuck with an awkward question - who or what created god? How did he suddenly appear like that, and from where?

If god is eternal - the question of where god came from does not arise ;-)

Phil
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26-08-2014, 11:45 AM
RE: Why does he always need to be eternal
(26-08-2014 11:35 AM)phil.a Wrote:  If god is eternal - the question of where god came from does not arise ;-)
True enough, but it is only substituted with another question - how can anything be eternal and have no beginning? This is one thing that bugs me. Theists who believe their god is eternal think that dismisses the issue entirely.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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26-08-2014, 11:47 AM
RE: Why does he always need to be eternal
(26-08-2014 11:45 AM)Impulse Wrote:  
(26-08-2014 11:35 AM)phil.a Wrote:  If god is eternal - the question of where god came from does not arise ;-)
True enough, but it is only substituted with another question - how can anything be eternal and have no beginning? This is one thing that bugs me. Theists who believe their god is eternal think that dismisses the issue entirely.

Eternal or timeless?

Edit:

Eternal = <-------------------->
Timeless = |------------------->

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26-08-2014, 11:49 AM
RE: Why does he always need to be eternal
(26-08-2014 11:47 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Eternal or timeless?
Both are typically what's believed.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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26-08-2014, 11:52 AM
RE: Why does he always need to be eternal
(26-08-2014 11:49 AM)Impulse Wrote:  
(26-08-2014 11:47 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Eternal or timeless?
Both are typically what's believed.

See edit.

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26-08-2014, 11:53 AM
RE: Why does he always need to be eternal
Eternal doesn't need a beginning. If it does, it becomes timeless; therefore, changing the definition of eternal.

Eternal is infinite from both beginning to end. Timeless is infinite in end only; it has a beginning.

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26-08-2014, 11:57 AM (This post was last modified: 26-08-2014 12:00 PM by Impulse.)
RE: Why does he always need to be eternal
(26-08-2014 11:53 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Eternal doesn't need a beginning. If it does, it becomes timeless; therefore, changing the definition of eternal.

Eternal is infinite from both beginning to end. Timeless is infinite in end only; it has a beginning.

Then I'm not sure why you asked the question. By your definitions, we were discussing eternal then. (But timeless to me means "outside time" and it would also therefore have no beginning or end.)

Edit:
Wait, I think I get why you asked now. My question "how can anything be eternal and have no beginning" sounds like it's asking how "eternal" and "having no beginning" go together. Actually it's asking how can anything be eternal; how can anything have no beginning?"

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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