Why does no one see that the accuracy of any Holy book is a mathmatical impossibility
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27-03-2013, 06:30 PM
Why does no one see that the accuracy of any Holy book is a mathmatical impossibility
Religion, all religion, is a matter of statistics. We understand that humans are deceitful, selfish and corrupt. we are deceitful even when it's unintentional!! We also know that statistically speaking, a sentence gets distorted - on average - after only 3 renditions. Anyone who has ever played the game telephone knows this. Therefore, it is statistically impossible that every sentence/story in a holy book (bible, Torah, Koran) which was written, compiled and translated not only into 100s of languages but 100s of years AFTER the described events (which means countless retelling of the story based on memory, which we established above to be faulty) is completely and utterly accurate. So, instead of basing your beliefs on a very fallible document(s), we should see them for what they are, because it leads to a lot of inflexibility and intolerance and the oppression of some else's rights based entirely on hearsay. It poisons our society and leads people to do hateful things because they feel that they have Divine authorization to do so. That is dangerous. Failing to even acknowledge even the mathematical probably that the holy book - in whole or in part - is incorrect is not faith. That's lunacy.

How can any religious person simply not acknowledge that there isn't this possibility of inaccuracy? I've heard the faithful tell me that "oh, it was meant as a metaphor...its a symbolic story..." But NEVER have I heard anyone actually acknowledge that the entire thing could be completely false?
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27-03-2013, 06:53 PM
RE: inaccuracy of bible, people still believe it, why?
Because they have "faith" and then logic, reason, and the ability to think/speak for themselves goes out the damn window. I've heard people say "Yeah, I didn't read the bible except what I was told to read and I know it's all messed up and probably didn't happen, but I need to believe in god." It's uncomfortable for people to think about death being the end, so having faith in a little story about a peaceful afterlife is their comfort and they're not letting it go. It's an unfortunate coping mechanism and ultimately futile, since we all die.

Plus, then they can judge people they don't like and it's largely socially acceptable. Like a "get out of jail free" card in Monopoly. Just say "I'm a Christian" and cherry pick a few verses from a religious text gathering dust on the shelf and use god to explain the unexplained or as a substitute for science and medicine (Johnny's brain operation went well, praise the lord! He guided the doctor's hand!) and you can get away with just about anything. Why give up not having to take personal responsibility for anything?

Keep your rosaries out of my ovaries, and your theology out of my biology.
"If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people." --Dr. House
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27-03-2013, 06:54 PM (This post was last modified: 06-04-2013 12:37 AM by Doctor X.)
RE: inaccuracy of bible, people still believe it, why?
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27-03-2013, 07:13 PM
Re: mathematical impossibility
Darth - it's a good point. However; the caveat here is that no one seems to notice that believing in a Holy Book and believing in God are not mutually exclusive events. You can believe in God and still acknowledge that it's probably not all that accurate. That there might be a possibility that there is a god, but that it doesn't have any interest in the lives of humans

Your statement also suggests that heaven or Hell the only reason for believing? If so - that's a very weak minded individual!

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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27-03-2013, 07:17 PM
RE: mathematical impossibility
(27-03-2013 07:13 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Darth - it's a good point. However; the caveat here is that no one seems to notice that believing in a Holy Book and believing in God are not mutually exclusive events. You can believe in God and still acknowledge that it's probably not all that accurate. That there might be a possibility that there is a god, but that it doesn't have any interest in the lives of humans

Your statement also suggests that heaven or Hell the only reason for believing? If so - that's a very weak minded individual!

Believing that there might be a god, but he has no interest in us, essentially agnosticism, one step away from atheism with no discernable difference in how we live our lives.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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27-03-2013, 07:17 PM
RE: mathematical impossibility
(27-03-2013 07:13 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Darth - it's a good point. However; the caveat here is that no one seems to notice that believing in a Holy Book and believing in God are not mutually exclusive events. You can believe in God and still acknowledge that it's probably not all that accurate. That there might be a possibility that there is a god, but that it doesn't have any interest in the lives of humans

Your statement also suggests that heaven or Hell the only reason for believing? If so - that's a very weak minded individual!

It's not so much that they don't notice more than that it's not an option. To them, god gave them the book and god is perfect. Therefore the book is perfect. reason plays no part.

Stop using reason, it only gets in the way of faith.

Just an outsider looking inn.
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27-03-2013, 07:59 PM
RE: inaccuracy of bible, people still believe it, why?
(27-03-2013 06:54 PM)Doctor X Wrote:  You have your math!

I have my faith!




I will pray for you!

--J.D.

FC
May the numbers with you.
Response:
And also with you.
FC
Go forth and multiply.
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“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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27-03-2013, 08:02 PM (This post was last modified: 06-04-2013 12:36 AM by Doctor X.)
RE: inaccuracy of bible, people still believe it, why?
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27-03-2013, 10:15 PM
RE: inaccuracy of bible, people still believe it, why?
(27-03-2013 08:02 PM)Doctor X Wrote:  
(27-03-2013 07:59 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  FC
May the numbers with you.
Response:
And also with you.
FC
Go forth and multiply.
Big Grin

Hey we have pi and we integrate!!! Tongue

--J. "Mmmmmm . . . Pie!" D.

Right back atcha Doc!



“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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28-03-2013, 01:46 PM
RE: inaccuracy of bible, people still believe it, why?
Quote:Religion, all religion, is a matter of statistics. We understand that humans are deceitful, selfish and corrupt. we are deceitful even when it's unintentional!! We also know that statistically speaking, a sentence gets distorted - on average - after only 3 renditions. Anyone who has ever played the game telephone knows this. Therefore, it is statistically impossible that every sentence/story in a holy book (bible, Torah, Koran) which was written, compiled and translated not only into 100s of languages but 100s of years AFTER the described events (which means countless retelling of the story based on memory, which we established above to be faulty) is completely and utterly accurate. So, instead of basing your beliefs on a very fallible document(s), we should see them for what they are, because it leads to a lot of inflexibility and intolerance and the oppression of some else's rights based entirely on hearsay. It poisons our society and leads people to do hateful things because they feel that they have Divine authorization to do so. That is dangerous. Failing to even acknowledge even the mathematical probably that the holy book - in whole or in part - is incorrect is not faith. That's lunacy.

How can any religious person simply not acknowledge that there isn't this possibility of inaccuracy? I've heard the faithful tell me that "oh, it was meant as a metaphor...its a symbolic story..." But NEVER have I heard anyone actually acknowledge that the entire thing could be completely false?
I was in Manahattan on 9/11. I can still tell you where I was, exactly what I did, what I did the evening before, who I was with and many of the things we discussed. I've also published and edited over a dozen fiction and non-fiction books. When I'm transcribing others' details I'm particular careful to get things right. Just like those tests for which I studied hard in school and scored 100% correct. Add to memory imprint of significant events the extreme rigor with which the scribes copied holy texts in their original languages and you have a plausible, not unlikely, case for a preserved Holy Bible. All of this WITHOUT the added "God helped us get it right." Thanks.
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