Why does science get to pass the buck?
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12-06-2013, 06:57 PM
Why does science get to pass the buck?
Huge computer farms have been designed and built to record every electronic input or output from the U.S., spying on everyone.

If a political system or religious system was doing this then we would be pointing out how corrupt and oppressive those systems are. But the new age atheists who worship science will form a back pedaling chorus in their defense of science on this issue. Why do scientists and science still not get any criticism at all when clearly in cases like this they and science serve no good at all towards humanity.

Where is the criticism of these scientists that work on these projects or that build and design germ warfare and WMD's? Do they get a pass simply because they are scientists?
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12-06-2013, 07:05 PM
RE: Why does science get to pass the buck?
(12-06-2013 06:57 PM)I and I Wrote:  Huge computer farms have been designed and built to record every electronic input or output from the U.S., spying on everyone.

If a political system or religious system was doing this then we would be pointing out how corrupt and oppressive those systems are. But the new age atheists who worship science will form a back pedaling chorus in their defense of science on this issue. Why do scientists and science still not get any criticism at all when clearly in cases like this they and science serve no good at all towards humanity.

Where is the criticism of these scientists that work on these projects or that build and design germ warfare and WMD's? Do they get a pass simply because they are scientists?

It is the government agencies doing the spying. And many are outraged by it.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-06-2013, 07:12 PM (This post was last modified: 12-06-2013 07:59 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Why does science get to pass the buck?
It's all a Western backed, Pentagon funded plot, funneled through the Vatican and back through the Wall Street banks, to secretly pay Al Quaeda secret ops, all for one reason, and one reason, only.

Just to piss off I and I

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12-06-2013, 07:13 PM
RE: Why does science get to pass the buck?
You're really reaching here I&I. First, the work being done was more engineering using information technology that it was research into new science. Second, what Chas said.
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12-06-2013, 07:15 PM (This post was last modified: 12-06-2013 07:31 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Why does science get to pass the buck?
(12-06-2013 06:57 PM)I and I Wrote:  Why do scientists and science still not get any criticism at all when clearly in cases like this they and science serve no good at all towards humanity.

Well I sure as hell don't worship science. I mean what the fuck, I am a scientist, I know better. But the response is "You got a better idea?" Seriously, that's science's response, "You got a better idea? I'm open to suggestions." And the scientists and engineers are just fucking incidental. Technology at this point is unstoppable and will continue to accelerate at an exponential rate. It will find a scientist or engineer to further its insatiable appetite. Hell, long before we had computers, Newton and Leibniz independently came up with/invented/discovered/realized the Calculus concurrently. (Why we use Leibniz's notation and generally give Newton the credit is a grave historical injustice.)

(12-06-2013 06:57 PM)I and I Wrote:  Where is the criticism of these scientists that work on these projects or that build and design germ warfare and WMD's? Do they get a pass simply because they are scientists?

You want virtually free energy and electricity? Might have to go through a Manhattan Project to get the funding to get there. That's just the way it is.

Oppenheimer dude don't sound or look like he feels like he was given a pass.



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12-06-2013, 07:18 PM
RE: Why does science get to pass the buck?
(12-06-2013 07:05 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(12-06-2013 06:57 PM)I and I Wrote:  Huge computer farms have been designed and built to record every electronic input or output from the U.S., spying on everyone.

If a political system or religious system was doing this then we would be pointing out how corrupt and oppressive those systems are. But the new age atheists who worship science will form a back pedaling chorus in their defense of science on this issue. Why do scientists and science still not get any criticism at all when clearly in cases like this they and science serve no good at all towards humanity.

Where is the criticism of these scientists that work on these projects or that build and design germ warfare and WMD's? Do they get a pass simply because they are scientists?

It is the government agencies doing the spying. And many are outraged by it.

Try again

Government agencies often employ private contractors to do their work, such was the case with Prism and it's massive computer warehouses designed to track all electronic information from everyone.

The private sector and it's researchers and scientists are contracted to do x work to make these tools available to be used.

You guys do know that scientists were on trial at nuremburg as were japanese scientists in a different trial after ww2. The prosecutors didn't and shouldn't have given two fucks whether or not they were private contractors or directly employed by the government.

Pass the buck
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12-06-2013, 07:25 PM
RE: Why does science get to pass the buck?
(12-06-2013 07:18 PM)I and I Wrote:  The private sector and it's researchers and scientists are contracted to do x work to make these tools available to be used.

You guys do know that scientists were on trial at nuremburg as were japanese scientists in a different trial after ww2. The prosecutors didn't and shouldn't have given two fucks whether or not they were private contractors or directly employed by the government.

Pass the buck

You... ARE aware of the difference, right?

You have to do something illegal to be prosecuted. The massive surveillance ring run by the NSA among others is legal, thanks to several rounds of terrible, terrible US administrations (and their craven lackeys elsewhere in the world, including Canada).

If you're claiming that it's morally bad - yes? It is? You show me one person here who said it wasn't. Just one.

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12-06-2013, 07:32 PM
RE: Why does science get to pass the buck?
(12-06-2013 07:25 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(12-06-2013 07:18 PM)I and I Wrote:  The private sector and it's researchers and scientists are contracted to do x work to make these tools available to be used.

You guys do know that scientists were on trial at nuremburg as were japanese scientists in a different trial after ww2. The prosecutors didn't and shouldn't have given two fucks whether or not they were private contractors or directly employed by the government.

Pass the buck

You... ARE aware of the difference, right?

You have to do something illegal to be prosecuted. The massive surveillance ring run by the NSA among others is legal, thanks to several rounds of terrible, terrible US administrations (and their craven lackeys elsewhere in the world, including Canada).

If you're claiming that it's morally bad - yes? It is? You show me one person here who said it wasn't. Just one.

If you liked straw any more, I'd think you were a horse.


I am not making a moral judgement, I am saying it shouldn't happen and the people involved in it should be brought to trial, do you disagree?

Do you agree with the fact that japanese scientists and german scientists were put on trial after ww2?
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12-06-2013, 07:34 PM (This post was last modified: 12-06-2013 07:49 PM by ridethespiral.)
RE: Why does science get to pass the buck?
(12-06-2013 07:18 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(12-06-2013 07:05 PM)Chas Wrote:  It is the government agencies doing the spying. And many are outraged by it.

Try again

Government agencies often employ private contractors to do their work, such was the case with Prism and it's massive computer warehouses designed to track all electronic information from everyone.

The private sector and it's researchers and scientists are contracted to do x work to make these tools available to be used.

You guys do know that scientists were on trial at nuremburg as were japanese scientists in a different trial after ww2. The prosecutors didn't and shouldn't have given two fucks whether or not they were private contractors or directly employed by the government.

Pass the buck

Right except science is a method not an entity, it has no centralized authority. Science is tool, that is all.

As for scientists they are HIRED to do jobs if they shouldn't be doing them the blame lies with those who contracted them, unless the experiments themselves where unethical/inhumane. In the case of the Nazi's German 'scientists' where ordered to do insane, stupid, brutal shit. Science was hardly involved as I understand it. They where tried in the same way Nazi officers and party officials where, for their collusion in atrocity, murderousness, etc.

You might be able to make a case against the people who carried out the PRISM contracts but even then wasn't it one of their scientists that leaked the info?

I could be a called a computer scientist (actually more of a software engineer) should I hang in the I and I v. Science trial?

Furthermore if not for science and scientists you would have a 93.7% chance of not ever existing (at least according to my crude estimates). Without science world population would still be on the order of what 500 million? and with science we are at 8 Billion, so logic tells me that without science you nor I probably would not exist.

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12-06-2013, 07:37 PM
RE: Why does science get to pass the buck?
(12-06-2013 07:18 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(12-06-2013 07:05 PM)Chas Wrote:  It is the government agencies doing the spying. And many are outraged by it.

Try again

Government agencies often employ private contractors to do their work, such was the case with Prism and it's massive computer warehouses designed to track all electronic information from everyone.

The private sector and it's researchers and scientists are contracted to do x work to make these tools available to be used.

You guys do know that scientists were on trial at nuremburg as were japanese scientists in a different trial after ww2. The prosecutors didn't and shouldn't have given two fucks whether or not they were private contractors or directly employed by the government.

Pass the buck

There have been no crimes, no one is charged, so what is your question?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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