Why don't you believe in a possible God?
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22-01-2016, 11:30 AM
RE: Why don't you believe in a possible God?
(22-01-2016 02:22 AM)morondog Wrote:  Apart from being oldest, Zeus didn't have much claim though. IIRC Poseidon, Hades and Zeus drew lots for which realm they would rule and Zeus got sky. The three were also more or less equal in power.

Actually Zeus was the youngest of the 6 siblings (3 boys 3 girls) with Hades being the eldest. By the rights of that time Hades should have been king but he agreed to draw lots with his siblings Zeus and Poseidon which seems kind of against his own interest except for one minor detail Zeus took possession of the Heavens and the skies, Poseidon over the oceans seas and rivers, and Hades took possession over the Underworld as well as any and all things under the earth.
Why is this important? Gold and iron. By taking the underworld Hades made himself easily the richest of all the gods having the only real access to precious gems and metals as well as the materials to make any weapons or armour. Combined with the fact he had total authority over the largest potential army in all the world by several orders of magnitude it's thought by many that Hades could have easily over thrown the other gods if he had the inclination.
However while often depicted in mythology and cold and stern he was chiefly interested in the preservation of balance and the equal treatment of all under his law. He also also shown multiple times to give utterly no shits for the top side world and only concerned with the running of the Underworld.

All wealth traveled first through Hades hands, leading many to believe that the underworld is EXACTLY what he wanted. Zeus being little more then a figurehead god and Hades being the real power behind the throne.

My Celtic mythology is a lot stronger then my Greek though so I could be wrong on a point or two.

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22-01-2016, 11:32 AM
RE: Why don't you believe in a possible God?
(22-01-2016 05:06 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(22-01-2016 04:40 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  WTF is an Edgelord? Blink

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=edgelord

Laugh out load I'm learning a whole new vocabulary on this forum...
Oh how delightful, #2 perfectly describes one of this forums members. How amusing, thanks for that. Laugh out load

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22-01-2016, 11:35 AM
RE: Why don't you believe in a possible God?
Oh but I do. I AM is God. He prefers to go by "Bob".
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22-01-2016, 12:01 PM
RE: Why don't you believe in a possible God?
(22-01-2016 11:30 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(22-01-2016 02:22 AM)morondog Wrote:  Apart from being oldest, Zeus didn't have much claim though. IIRC Poseidon, Hades and Zeus drew lots for which realm they would rule and Zeus got sky. The three were also more or less equal in power.

Actually Zeus was the youngest of the 6 siblings (3 boys 3 girls) with Hades being the eldest. By the rights of that time Hades should have been king but he agreed to draw lots with his siblings Zeus and Poseidon which seems kind of against his own interest except for one minor detail Zeus took possession of the Heavens and the skies, Poseidon over the oceans seas and rivers, and Hades took possession over the Underworld as well as any and all things under the earth.
Why is this important? Gold and iron. By taking the underworld Hades made himself easily the richest of all the gods having the only real access to precious gems and metals as well as the materials to make any weapons or armour. Combined with the fact he had total authority over the largest potential army in all the world by several orders of magnitude it's thought by many that Hades could have easily over thrown the other gods if he had the inclination.
However while often depicted in mythology and cold and stern he was chiefly interested in the preservation of balance and the equal treatment of all under his law. He also also shown multiple times to give utterly no shits for the top side world and only concerned with the running of the Underworld.

All wealth traveled first through Hades hands, leading many to believe that the underworld is EXACTLY what he wanted. Zeus being little more then a figurehead god and Hades being the real power behind the throne.

My Celtic mythology is a lot stronger then my Greek though so I could be wrong on a point or two.

That isn't really how contemporaries would have thought of it... Primogeniture was emphatically not a prevailing concept in ancient Greece; Zeus was nonetheless the leader during the Titanomachy. The fact that they still (mostly) got along was seen as an ideal of kinship prevailing over rivalry.

Besides, Hades was busy wrangling the varies primordial cthonic entities running around.
(though he was not so disengaged he didn't later want a wife... Tongue )

Incidentally, which Celtic mythology? There aren't really good sources for any that I'm aware...

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22-01-2016, 06:01 PM
RE: Why don't you believe in a possible God?
(22-01-2016 12:01 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Incidentally, which Celtic mythology? There aren't really good sources for any that I'm aware...
Mostly the the mythology of Ireland, I have a particular interest in the Tuatha Dé Danann. Good sources are incredibly hard to find and we can thank the Christians for that.

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22-01-2016, 07:06 PM
RE: Why don't you believe in a possible God?
(22-01-2016 06:01 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(22-01-2016 12:01 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Incidentally, which Celtic mythology? There aren't really good sources for any that I'm aware...
Mostly the the mythology of Ireland, I have a particular interest in the Tuatha Dé Danann. Good sources are incredibly hard to find and we can thank the Christians for that.




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22-01-2016, 07:52 PM
RE: Why don't you believe in a possible God?
As omnipotence has been proved to be impossible, any possible God would have to be something less than all-powerful.

If God is not quite all-powerful, then odds are high indeed that He cannot read my thoughts and beliefs... and we know from experience that prayer doesn't work.

Given the above, what would be the point in believing in such an entity? Or even sillier, worshipping that entity??
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23-01-2016, 02:19 AM
RE: Why don't you believe in a possible God?
According to my reading of ancient Greek literature, Zeus became King of the gods after the horrid death of Kronos.

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23-01-2016, 05:24 AM
RE: Why don't you believe in a possible God?
(22-01-2016 11:30 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(22-01-2016 02:22 AM)morondog Wrote:  Apart from being oldest, Zeus didn't have much claim though. IIRC Poseidon, Hades and Zeus drew lots for which realm they would rule and Zeus got sky. The three were also more or less equal in power.

Actually Zeus was the youngest of the 6 siblings (3 boys 3 girls) with Hades being the eldest. By the rights of that time Hades should have been king but he agreed to draw lots with his siblings Zeus and Poseidon which seems kind of against his own interest except for one minor detail Zeus took possession of the Heavens and the skies, Poseidon over the oceans seas and rivers, and Hades took possession over the Underworld as well as any and all things under the earth.
Why is this important? Gold and iron. By taking the underworld Hades made himself easily the richest of all the gods having the only real access to precious gems and metals as well as the materials to make any weapons or armour. Combined with the fact he had total authority over the largest potential army in all the world by several orders of magnitude it's thought by many that Hades could have easily over thrown the other gods if he had the inclination.
However while often depicted in mythology and cold and stern he was chiefly interested in the preservation of balance and the equal treatment of all under his law. He also also shown multiple times to give utterly no shits for the top side world and only concerned with the running of the Underworld.

All wealth traveled first through Hades hands, leading many to believe that the underworld is EXACTLY what he wanted. Zeus being little more then a figurehead god and Hades being the real power behind the throne.

My Celtic mythology is a lot stronger then my Greek though so I could be wrong on a point or two.

Haaaang on a sec. Back the truck up. Zeus... oh yes you're right. Chronos was told that one of his kids would unseat him so he ate them all as they were born (divine contraception not being a thing at the time), but then when Zeus was born his Mama (Gaia?) hid him away and gave Chronos a stone to munch on... I remember that shit now.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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23-01-2016, 07:00 AM
RE: Why don't you believe in a possible God?
The reason why I disbelieve is quite simple, although for this "philosophy" you will have to imagine looking at the world and excluding yourself from it.

Throughout history there have been many different gods. I have looked into the history of different religions and mythologies and whilst I found it interesting, I am not that committed to remember it all or the intricacies of each ideologies ruleset.

There was religions, that at one time people lived their life's by and some would be willing to die for these beliefs. Go throughout history and pick one.... nobody worships or believes in these old gods, yet like I just mentioned, these old gods defined how people lived their lives, exactly like the ones today.

Today we have the "mainstream" gods, all pretty much based around the same story that either includes a direct descendant of god (Jesus etc) or being the messenger of god (Allah, Buddha etc) that all appear to have roots or have evolved in some way from the old religions.

The rules or moral sets that they pertain as truth are all cultural. They exist and are written from a homo-sapien viewpoint and this is understandable as we are all limited by our experience of being human.

So if you have successfully removed yourself from the equation you can see that throughout our species time we have had many different gods and belief set's, all with their own different rules and that the vast majority of them are not even considered worthy of belief anymore and that nobody worships them. So if we fast forward into the future, based upon our history it is quite feasible to assume that one day there could be other gods or belief systems that people worship and that the ones people could consider as "truth" today, could quite possibly become redundant.

We are all part of something, currently we call it the universe, because we are mortal and we see things as having a beginning and having an end we like to transfer this to what we see around us. So whilst we see the start of the universe as the big bang, we have given it that label. None of us can perceive infinity and I can appreciate the thought that maybe everything has just always been here, with no beginning and with no end, it does not need a "creator" and that the big bang might simply be part of some other bigger process. Like after some infinite amount of time so many black holes are created that eventually they all absorb and merge into one super duper fucking massive black hole that has all matter and energy densely put into one single point that it reacts somehow and explodes, thus creating the universe with another big bang. We might not even be the first cycle of a "beginning".

Its obvious (to me at least) that gods are simply creations of mankind. The rules that they are written by at one point made perfect sense because there was a lack of knowledge to say otherwise.

I feel so much, and yet I feel nothing.
I am a rock, I am the sky, the birds and the trees and everything beyond.
I am the wind, in the fields in which I roar. I am the water, in which I drown.
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