Why don't you believe in a possible God?
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23-01-2016, 07:22 AM
RE: Why don't you believe in a possible God?
(22-01-2016 11:30 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(22-01-2016 02:22 AM)morondog Wrote:  Apart from being oldest, Zeus didn't have much claim though. IIRC Poseidon, Hades and Zeus drew lots for which realm they would rule and Zeus got sky. The three were also more or less equal in power.

Actually Zeus was the youngest of the 6 siblings (3 boys 3 girls) with Hades being the eldest. By the rights of that time Hades should have been king but he agreed to draw lots with his siblings Zeus and Poseidon which seems kind of against his own interest except for one minor detail Zeus took possession of the Heavens and the skies, Poseidon over the oceans seas and rivers, and Hades took possession over the Underworld as well as any and all things under the earth.
Why is this important? Gold and iron. By taking the underworld Hades made himself easily the richest of all the gods having the only real access to precious gems and metals as well as the materials to make any weapons or armour. Combined with the fact he had total authority over the largest potential army in all the world by several orders of magnitude it's thought by many that Hades could have easily over thrown the other gods if he had the inclination.
However while often depicted in mythology and cold and stern he was chiefly interested in the preservation of balance and the equal treatment of all under his law. He also also shown multiple times to give utterly no shits for the top side world and only concerned with the running of the Underworld.

All wealth traveled first through Hades hands, leading many to believe that the underworld is EXACTLY what he wanted. Zeus being little more then a figurehead god and Hades being the real power behind the throne.

My Celtic mythology is a lot stronger then my Greek though so I could be wrong on a point or two.

I like that, it reminds me of the creative take on Kelemvor, the god of the dead in the Forgotten Realms fantasy setting.

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23-01-2016, 09:46 AM
RE: Why don't you believe in a possible God?
(18-01-2016 12:39 PM)LostLocke Wrote:  
(18-01-2016 10:24 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  Tiamat: In Babylonian myths, Tiamat is a huge, bloated female dragon that personifies the saltwater ocean, the water of Chaos. She is also the primordial mother of all that exists, including the gods themselves.

[Image: tiamat_by_victoradameart-d8d0jd7.jpg]
You are obviously not a true Tiamatist. Anyone who was a true believer would know that this is Tiamat:

[Image: latest?cb=20091224162247]

Drooling

Mmmm... Tiamat....

Don't let those gnomes and their illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions.

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23-01-2016, 10:28 AM (This post was last modified: 23-01-2016 03:35 PM by Reltzik.)
RE: Why don't you believe in a possible God?
(23-01-2016 05:24 AM)morondog Wrote:  Haaaang on a sec. Back the truck up. Zeus... oh yes you're right. Chronos was told that one of his kids would unseat him so he ate them all as they were born (divine contraception not being a thing at the time), but then when Zeus was born his Mama (Gaia?) hid him away and gave Chronos a stone to munch on... I remember that shit now.

The Titans including Cronus were children of Gaea and Uranus. (No Uranus jokes, please. They've been overdone and Uranus needs a rest before it's funny again.) Uranus had been throwing their more monstrous children into the pit of Tartarus, which pissed Mama Gaea off. She conspired with Cronus to turn on Uranus and liberate the homely kiddies. Cronus did just that, driving Uranus off (and castrating him in the process, lovely tale), and took up the throne in his father's place.

He then married his sister Rhea (who was mother to the core group of Olympians including Zeus and his wife/sister Hera... yeah, incest was a thing), threw the homely kids BACK into Tartarus after they'd helped with his revolution, and pissed Mama Gaea off again, resulting in a curse that he'd be overthrown by his kids in turn and him just gobbling them all up as babies. It took Rhea five babies eaten before getting the bright idea that she should RUN AWAY from the child-eating monster when pregnant with the sixth, Zeus. Zeus freed the homely kids from Tartarus, led a revolution, overthrew Cronus and forced him to vomit up the siblings.

At which point Zeus threw the homely kids and some or all of the Titans into Tartarus (some versions have him leaving a few free, while others have their roles being taken over by Zeus's kids), pissing off Gaea. Yeesh.

Note that the characters of Greek mythology are no more intelligent than the characters of Abrahamic mythology. The principle difference is that they aren't claimed to be perfect.
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23-01-2016, 11:04 AM
RE: Why don't you believe in a possible God?
I believe/know there is no god because the hypothesis has no grounds. And every description of a god I've ever heard breaks observable laws of physics and basically how reality works. If I said, "There is a planet in another galaxy where its inhabitants live in perpetual freefall, and they grow without ever consuming anything (not even water or sunlight)." Would you say, "Oh, that MIGHT be possible"? Or would you say, "No, that can't be true because..."

That's how I feel about the god hypothesis. It's baseless, and violates too much to be taken seriously. The questions you seem to be bothered with, "Why does existence exist, why are there observable behaviors in nature and the universe" is something I frankly don't care about for 1, and 2 I have no use for magical explanations that don't have REASON and EVIDENCE backing them up.

As far as why i choose to say I "know" rather than "believe". In my opinion, knowledge and belief are on a continuum. I don't think anything is certain because we don't have perfect intellect, or perfect information, or perfect opportunity to observe. But there are several things that I believe so strongly that I can't imagine myself being wrong given my understanding of how existence works. These are the things I say that I "Know". They include the outcome of several math problems, that I am alive and human, and that there is no magical creature responsible for the creation, fundamentals, or continuation of existence.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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23-01-2016, 03:27 PM
RE: Why don't you believe in a possible God?
Quote:continuation of existence
So when will universe stop existing?
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23-01-2016, 03:31 PM
RE: Why don't you believe in a possible God?
Because god is not possible. Drinking Beverage

What do you mean Life is short. It's the longest thing you're going to do.
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23-01-2016, 03:52 PM
RE: Why don't you believe in a possible God?
Believing in something just because it's possible opens the door to wasting one's life believing in a lot of dumb shit.
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23-01-2016, 09:15 PM
RE: Why don't you believe in a possible God?
(23-01-2016 03:27 PM)dimaniac Wrote:  
Quote:continuation of existence
So when will universe stop existing?

On a Thursday, piss off troll.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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23-01-2016, 10:22 PM
RE: Why don't you believe in a possible God?
(23-01-2016 03:27 PM)dimaniac Wrote:  
Quote:continuation of existence
So when will universe stop existing?

Ask a scientist.

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23-01-2016, 11:32 PM
RE: Why don't you believe in a possible God?
(23-01-2016 03:27 PM)dimaniac Wrote:  
Quote:continuation of existence
So when will universe stop existing?

The short answer is, the data isn't in yet. There's two big, likely scenarios in something of a gravitational tug of war with each other, but it's difficult to project which one will win out in the end, much less when.

Scenario 1 is the Big Crunch. In this scenario, the expansion of the universe slows and reverses and the whole thing collapses back into a singularity. What happens after that? Who knows. It might be the end of everything, or it might be another Big Bang, or... well, three spacial dimensions will have ended and, so the linkage of space-time tells us, time as well, so there might not BE an "after" after that. We just don't have the physics to say, for the simple reason that such an environment is so far outside our experience that we have no idea what laws would govern the universe in such a state. Suffice to say, it would be the end of the universe as we know it.

Scenario 2 is Heat Death. In this scenario, expansion either continues indefinitely or approaches asymptotic equilibrium. No collapse occurs. Entropy proceeds apace until no more energy reactions are possible, and everything... sort of winds down and freezes. The universe would become unvaried, homogeneous soup, with a temperature indistinguishable from absolute zero. The universe would still be there, but no more significant events would be possible. Again, how long this would take is an open question, and it might actually take forever -- with the universe winding down so that there are fewer and fewer reactions possible, forever slowing, but never reaching a full stop. (No, not literal soup.)

Cribbing heavily from Wikipedia... given our present astronomical data on the curvature of the universe and the current state of our understanding of physics, heat death is the more likely outcome, occurring somewhere on the order of magnitude of a googol years from now (1 followed by a hundred zeros). Raise that to the power of 27 (so one followed by 2700 zeros), and that's about the time it would take for quantum fluctuation to create another universe. It should be emphasized that both our knowledge of physics (both on the large scales involved, and under the exotic conditions speculated for the distant future) and our astronomical data are evolving and the matter should not be considered settled.

... and all that's a red herring, of course. Regardless of whether the universe continues existing or not, there need be no magical creature responsible for it.
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