Why don't you believe in a possible God?
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24-01-2016, 02:30 AM
RE: Why don't you believe in a possible God?
(23-01-2016 10:28 AM)Reltzik Wrote:  Note that the characters of Greek mythology are no more intelligent than the characters of Abrahamic mythology. The principle difference is that they aren't claimed to be perfect.

Yup yup. Which makes them much better Gods. Norse Gods also not claimed to be perfect AFAIK, just a good friend to have if you're in a tight spot and not evil like the ice giants. I mean, they're all Indo-European deities anyway so probably related.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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24-01-2016, 05:59 AM
RE: Why don't you believe in a possible God?
(23-01-2016 03:27 PM)dimaniac Wrote:  
Quote:continuation of existence
So when will universe stop existing?

Long after you're around to care about it fuckwit. Drinking Beverage

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24-01-2016, 06:06 AM
RE: Why don't you believe in a possible God?
(23-01-2016 11:32 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  ... and all that's a red herring, of course. Regardless of whether the universe continues existing or not, there need be no magical creature responsible for it.

Marco Rubio, just a couple days ago, said something along the lines of "how can we have __________ unless it is given by God?" I don't even remember what the blank was; I was just shocked and dismayed (though not a bit surprised) that anyone could deploy such language on the campaign trail and expect not to get laughed out of the room.
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24-01-2016, 07:19 AM
RE: Why don't you believe in a possible God?
GMK,...most of my life I was caught up in the soup of religious fantasy. I had believed in a religious "creator".
I was even ordained into the system.

But That system is nothing but a control tool for sheep who can't or don't want to think or fix their own problems......hey lets pray and maybe god will fix it for us.... Same old same old from antiquity...CONTROL.

I can't say I believe...nor can I say I don't believe...why? A belief is not a FACT...it's (to me as I understand it) a hopeful desire.A desire for something better than what we have now. Is that wrong? At the basic no it's not wrong. But when my or your or anyone Else's belief or desire is forced on others then yes it's wrong and almost criminal.

Does God exist? Oh yeah!!...and people of superstition created him..in their image!!

If I wanted to believe in god here is what I would believe. To start with he wouldn't be the OT hateful entity that we read about.... He wouldn't have me to kill you for wanking your weenie on the sabbath,..or for checking out the beauty of a nice lady...or killing 40 some kids because they made fun of a bald headed dude. Or making a jackass talk when he could have spoken directly to the man..
He also wouldn't keep people naked and stupid in a fooking garden working as slaves. And he damn sure would not be killing his SON because he,god, fooked up!. And he would have told people the earth was round and the sun did not rotate around her. Ya follow what I'm saying here?

No...he would be kind.....he would come down here and talk to ALL PEOPLE, not just a bunch of child molesting priests or camel shit smoking gurus. He would never invent disease or death....wouldn't be anything called war and killing...at all. Hospitals would never have been dreamed of...nor health care...
Poverty.....whats that?
And..he would let us all have wings so we could fly around too.....space travel and all that shit.....there would be no hurt at all. But the made up creator did none of that did he?

If he is real and is what the religious institutions claim......oh my, but we are truly fucked!
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24-01-2016, 07:46 AM
RE: Why don't you believe in a possible God?
(17-01-2016 12:39 AM)GrandMasterK Wrote:  Hi. Firstly, disclaimer. I am an agnostic. I come with this question out of ignorance of the matter as most "atheists" I run into speak as if they are certain there is no God. However, reading some of the writings on this board I notice that isn't quite where a lot of sophisticated atheists typically file their opinion.

there really isn't much sophistication involved, go has yet to be defined properly so until that happens every god-exists argument is wrong by default as their god has no proper definition for their "evidence" to validate

Quote:I notice most people, religious or not, base their opinions of a process of reasoning that doesn't quite hold up under scrutiny. A lot of people simply don't see the bias that directs their opinions. For a lot of atheists, they don't seem to consider anything outside of disagreeing with established ideas and religions. Naturally this is curious because we are of limited intellect, crowding one tiny planet in the vast cosmos, most of us having hardly even explored much of this tiny planet, much less the universe. Yet most of us are so certain in what we believe and don't believe. After all, consciousness could be contained in dark matter. Probably isn't. But it could be.

firstly we have no science has no clear understanding of what a consciousness actually is because everything about our brain hasn't been understood yet,
we do however know that in order for there to be a mind, there must exist a physical brain to go accommodate it and there is no indication of dark matter being needed for a mind

Quote:A universe of laws without a lawmaker is a curious one. The four forces....have force somehow. We may never be able to understand it.

the laws of the universe doesn't mean there are any laws let alone a lawmaker

laws are nothing more than linguistic constructs for the express purpose of communicating the criteria that we have observed that have to be met in order for an outcome to occur

in simple english, take boiling water for example
we say water starts to boil at 100'c, now why is that ? well in normal atmospheric conditions where nothing has been added to the water we have yet to see water start boiling at temperatures lower than 100'c
laws are simply a way of saying "if you do action 'X' to an object 'B' then outcome 'Y' will happen"

Quote: Though if we assume design, then the obvious question who designed the designer and so on and so fourth pops up pretty quick. Again, a somewhat hidden bias behind peoples thinking is that the concept of a God entails no need for an even higher creator, yet for some reason the concept of the universe does. Nobody knows the answer to that question of course.

firstly why should we assume design ? we have yet to be given any correct way of identifying design and the times were we have been given examples of design they ultimately amount to natural phenomena that requires no design

secondly even if we do assume design what does that even do to further our knowledge ? serious does the assumption tell us how the designer did it, or better yet is there only one designer or a committee of 23 ? what difference would there be in the universe if there were several designers

the whole assumption of design offers nothing but more unfalsifiable claims,
its like a giant onion of wrongness where peeling back one layer reveals another inexcusable layer of more wrongs, the whole point of any god-exist argument is not to actually prove god exists but to trick lay people who don't know any better in order to make sure the believer stays a believer

Quote:So I wonder, why the disbelief? Or rather, when did you declare yourself an atheist as opposed to not declaring yourself anything at all? (as perhaps a man alone in a world of strictly science may do)

because there is no evidence for the existence of any deities, Tinkerbell, martians, bugs bunny etc etc so what reason is there to believe it exists
if it can't be proven to exist then its indistinguishable from everything else that doesn't exist
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24-01-2016, 02:49 PM
RE: Why don't you believe in a possible God?
(17-01-2016 12:39 AM)GrandMasterK Wrote:  Hi. Firstly, disclaimer. I am an agnostic.

Congratulations... Most of us are agnostic here. We're also mostly atheists. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Theist/Atheist simply address a state of acceptance for the claim "god(s) exist(s)"

Neither the theist, nor the atheist need make any claim here. We have no choice in this matter of acceptance/belief. In the same sense, if I were to claim that "my right shoe has gained conciousness, and left this planet through advanced gravity manipulation technology that it developed over the past few weeks" you'd either believe me or you wouldn't. You have no knowledge in the validity of my claim, but your belief or disbelief of my claim will still occur.

Gnostic/Agnostic are claims of knowledge. This is where you actually get a choice to make. Whether you believe or disbelieve in God isn't yours to decide, but whether you claim any knowledge of gods existence or non-existence is the deciding factor here. Most of our members fall into the disbelief category on the god claim, but also claim no knowledge of god's non-existence... Making them agnostic atheists.

Regardless of your claim to not know whether god exists, your belief or disbelief of the claim that "God exists" is beyond your control. It may change, but any change in your belief will come from experiences, education, or even brain chemistry, and will never be a decision in itself. If you do not believe the claim that "God exists", you are atheist by definition, even if you remain convinced that it's a possibility.
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