Why hell doesn't work as punishment?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
29-05-2014, 01:34 PM
RE: Why hell doesn't work as punishment?
(29-05-2014 01:30 PM)sanmayl Wrote:  
(29-05-2014 01:24 PM)Impulse Wrote:  If hell was real, then it's supposed to be an inescapable lake of fire. It wouldn't matter if the devil and demons were overthrown, it would still be an eternity of burning. But to say it does or does not "work as punishment" seems odd to me anyway. That sounds like the intent is to improve or deter bad behavior which is obviously moot in hell. So I assume you must mean the punishment would not work because it would be escapable, but by definition that's ruled out as a possibility.

If there is a way to enter, surely there is a way to get out. Because through logical deduction, if the former is valid the latter should also be valid. An entrace can be used as exit, and exit can also be used as the entrance.
Well I, of course, don't believe any of it, but if you're planning to use this to argue with theists, you know they're going to claim magic stops all that. Also, some say hell is simply a separation from god which itself causes torment. So, to that, would you say you could find your way back to god's presence without being blocked or without being cast away again? Consider

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-05-2014, 01:36 PM
RE: Why hell doesn't work as punishment?
(29-05-2014 12:22 PM)sanmayl Wrote:  We all know that fundamentalists use hell as an instrument of fear to keep people from leaving religion. This is my rebuttal, let's assume they are correct and hell really exists. Even that will not work as punishment system, why? Because how may people will go there? Let's say half of human population that is 3.5 billion people. Do you really think those 3.5 billion will just accept that and will not rebel against whoever manages hell? People are good in organizing ourselves against any common enemy - we all hate oppressive regime in thereal world. Heck, a 3.5 billion rebels in hell will topple whoever rules there.

What do you think?
Hell is terribly scary. People are afraid of Hell and have nightmares even years after becoming atheists.
The reason why Hell doesn't work is, that punishments in general don't work. Especially punishments that come long after the crime. Did death sentence lower the amount of crimes? Nope! Religious states that kill their prisoners have the most crime.
If punishment should work, it must come really fast and sure after the crime and it doesn't even have to be that harsh. But the thing that really works is self-knowledge, decent life standard, job opportunities, education and especially non-violent, respectful upbringing of children.
Punishments? Not so much. The punishment doctrine is based on Hamurrabi's code and its eye for eye was more fair than God's infinite punishment and reward after we're dead.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-05-2014, 01:41 PM
RE: Why hell doesn't work as punishment?
(29-05-2014 01:30 PM)sanmayl Wrote:  If there is a way to enter, surely there is a way to get out. Because through logical deduction, if the former is valid the latter should also be valid. An entrace can be used as exit, and exit can also be used as the entrance.

Not so sure, you ever seen those tire spikes at the wrong exit of a parking garage ?

If bullshit were music some people would be a brass band.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-05-2014, 01:44 PM
RE: Why hell doesn't work as punishment?
I think I'll go with the stock answer "It's magic! I ain't gotta 'splain shit!"

Presumably, since hell doesn't exist in this dimension and our intangible souls go there, we get their via magic. So long as we don't have sufficient magic to leave, then we'd be rather stuck. Also, as souls, we'd be intangible, so we wouldn't be able to hurt our oppressors.

That being said, I don't know how they're supposed to hurt us, either. I mean, if you stick your hand in a fire, it gets burned, but no one talks about your soul getting burned. It would seem that a lake of unquenchable fire... wouldn't actually do anything to a soul.

So, I submit that it would be a punishment of extreme boredom, but not physical torture. Incidentally, I think heaven would play out the same way. It's this super awesome place... yet you wouldn't be able to interact with anything because you're intangible. That almost sounds worse.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-05-2014, 01:46 PM
RE: Why hell doesn't work as punishment?
(29-05-2014 01:36 PM)Luminon Wrote:  
(29-05-2014 12:22 PM)sanmayl Wrote:  We all know that fundamentalists use hell as an instrument of fear to keep people from leaving religion. This is my rebuttal, let's assume they are correct and hell really exists. Even that will not work as punishment system, why? Because how may people will go there? Let's say half of human population that is 3.5 billion people. Do you really think those 3.5 billion will just accept that and will not rebel against whoever manages hell? People are good in organizing ourselves against any common enemy - we all hate oppressive regime in thereal world. Heck, a 3.5 billion rebels in hell will topple whoever rules there.

What do you think?
Hell is terribly scary. People are afraid of Hell and have nightmares even years after becoming atheists.
The reason why Hell doesn't work is, that punishments in general don't work. Especially punishments that come long after the crime. Did death sentence lower the amount of crimes? Nope! Religious states that kill their prisoners have the most crime.
If punishment should work, it must come really fast and sure after the crime and it doesn't even have to be that harsh. But the thing that really works is self-knowledge, decent life standard, job opportunities, education and especially non-violent, respectful upbringing of children.
Punishments? Not so much. The punishment doctrine is based on Hamurrabi's code and its eye for eye was more fair than God's infinite punishment and reward after we're dead.

But God is all knowing, beyond space & time.................but doesn't know that punishment doesn't work.

^Probably what will theists will say, a weak rebuttal that collapses due to lack of weight in logic.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-05-2014, 02:34 PM
RE: Why hell doesn't work as punishment?
(29-05-2014 01:24 PM)sanmayl Wrote:  
(29-05-2014 01:17 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  It doesn't work because members of my religion are removed from hell and taken away to their personal paradise. For our gold & platinum level members you can designate one person that you believe is in heaven and our special agents will wisk that person away to hell on your behalf.

Join today Smile

I'll join if your religion meets my demand, if you can make me a tax-free person I'll join no doubtTongue

You might want to join and pay the first month membership fees of $19.99 before I make you tax free. As we all know, the dead pay no taxes.

And for $2.00 we'll bring you a Guinness, but there is the small chance that if you experience some degree of happiness you won't technically be in hell anymore. Its a loophole that most christians don't even know about.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Rahn127's post
29-05-2014, 02:41 PM
RE: Why hell doesn't work as punishment?
Another plausible metaphor to my argument on this thread (no intention of derailing my own threadTongue):

Piracy won't stop, due the existence of analog hole (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analog_hole). There is a need for an opening, for it to be usable in the first place.

If there is a way to enter something, that same passage can be used for exiting it.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
30-05-2014, 04:31 AM
RE: Why hell doesn't work as punishment?
Because it doesn't exist

The secret to a happy life is lowering your expectations to the point where they are already met
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes PeterKA's post
30-05-2014, 05:23 AM
RE: Why hell doesn't work as punishment?
Using fear tactics to make people do what you want them to is cheap, juvenile and not very effective. You want people to do the right thing because they want to and not because they are afraid of what happens if they don't. Anyway, if you followed a lot of things the bible, for example, tells you to then you'll end up prison, dead or in a never ending depression. Prison works because it's a hell we know is real..we've seen it...but where the hell is hell, and why should anyone believe it exists?

A wise person makes their own decisions; an ignorant one follows public opinion.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
30-05-2014, 05:31 AM
RE: Why hell doesn't work as punishment?
This thread reminds me of Sheldon, Leonard, Raj and Howard discussing the habbits of comic book characters. Blink

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: