Why is Jesus' death considered a sacrifice?
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03-10-2013, 07:53 AM (This post was last modified: 03-10-2013 08:01 AM by RobbyPants.)
Why is Jesus' death considered a sacrifice?
Growing up Christian, the single most resounding things I heard was talk about "Christ's sacrifice". He died on the cross to save our sins. His sacrifice provided our salvation. What great love God showed through this sacrifice.

Now, this is often compared to lots of Old Testament sacrifices, where people had to set one of their goats on fire because God liked how it smelled. This makes sense to be classified as a sacrifice, because the goat herder had one less goat. Regardless of whether or not this goat burning made any sense or was necessary in the strictest sense is beside the point; it was a sacrifice.

So Jesus comes, spreads the good word, pisses off the people in charge, and is summarily executed. But then it's revealed that this death was a sacrifice and it was to atone for our sins. This is also why we don't have to burn goats anymore (does God still like how that smells?). The problem is, three days later, Jesus rose from the dead and eventually went up to heaven. This is constantly reaffirmed in Easter services every year. "He is risen! hallelujah!" and "Our God is a living God!" So, everyone accepts that he's not actually dead. How was that a sacrifice? Sure, he suffered for three days, and I'm sure that wasn't fun, but it was only a sacrifice in the sense that he sacrificed some of his happiness.

To go back to the whole goat thing, if the goat herders were told to immolate one of their goats, and three days later, it arose from the ashes no worse for the wear, it wouldn't be a sacrifice; it would be goat torture. So, did God save our sins by subjecting his son/avatar/himself to torture?

Creepy.
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03-10-2013, 08:13 AM
RE: Why is Jesus' death considered a sacrifice?
3 days of torture followed by eternity as one of the lords of all of creation? I'd take that trade in a heartbeat. Definitely not a sacrifice. Drinking Beverage

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03-10-2013, 08:50 AM
RE: Why is Jesus' death considered a sacrifice?
jesus didnt die at the first place, he fake death when he got into grave but pilar helped him to escape hour and five minutes later to b precise lols well im guessing the time but he didnt die that day

so those images are all lies

easy to invent things so u will never know the fact and what is in position of knowing is in power

but if u mean the torture of what i call being free right people, yes i agree

it is sold as a sacrifice for others just for extra outcomes

but in fact it is the life of one by forcing freedom right to stay still so to never deal with itself being right nor with else rights nor others objectively where reality would b living as being existing positively present in truth

all that is sacrified actually for one god, who say would give everyone to share his life
and here we see the number of people and believers that really enjoy being like him

hating to deal the minimum with reality or at least true needs while running always to mean some condition possessions like family country people around and positive things from knowing as a base of being someone life right
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03-10-2013, 09:13 AM
RE: Why is Jesus' death considered a sacrifice?
I've often asked the same question and been answered with blank stares. Another question is "Why did god have to do anything?" He could simply forgive us. Why did he have to go through a temporary death and torture? Doesn't god make the rules?

Humans, through history, have suffered worse fates than Jesus. He was not the only one to be crucified or tortured and others have certainly suffered longer (without the bonus resurrection). It's a flawed story when you actually take the time to think about it.

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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03-10-2013, 09:41 AM
RE: Why is Jesus' death considered a sacrifice?
God is an abusive father. Jesus is a sadomasochist. I'd say God just needed to let his anger rip on his son so they can both be gratified at the same time.
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03-10-2013, 09:51 AM
RE: Why is Jesus' death considered a sacrifice?
(03-10-2013 07:53 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Growing up Christian, the single most resounding things I heard was talk about "Christ's sacrifice". He died on the cross to save our sins. His sacrifice provided our salvation. What great love God showed through this sacrifice.

Now, this is often compared to lots of Old Testament sacrifices, where people had to set one of their goats on fire because God liked how it smelled. This makes sense to be classified as a sacrifice, because the goat herder had one less goat. Regardless of whether or not this goat burning made any sense or was necessary in the strictest sense is beside the point; it was a sacrifice.

So Jesus comes, spreads the good word, pisses off the people in charge, and is summarily executed. But then it's revealed that this death was a sacrifice and it was to atone for our sins. This is also why we don't have to burn goats anymore (does God still like how that smells?). The problem is, three days later, Jesus rose from the dead and eventually went up to heaven. This is constantly reaffirmed in Easter services every year. "He is risen! hallelujah!" and "Our God is a living God!" So, everyone accepts that he's not actually dead. How was that a sacrifice? Sure, he suffered for three days, and I'm sure that wasn't fun, but it was only a sacrifice in the sense that he sacrificed some of his happiness.

To go back to the whole goat thing, if the goat herders were told to immolate one of their goats, and three days later, it arose from the ashes no worse for the wear, it wouldn't be a sacrifice; it would be goat torture. So, did God save our sins by subjecting his son/avatar/himself to torture?

Creepy.

1. No belief in Christianity is confident. Faith is not enough to sustain belief. Believers are not content without hard evidence. The preacher's repeat their “message” endlessly as an inoculation against the rising tide of contrary evidence. We will always hear a “resounding” message, desperate to convince.

2. The intentional sacrifice of a human being is evil. No god or religion is any excuse.

3. A hypothetical omnipotent being does not need a human sacrifice to forgive offenses that it supposedly designed in the first place.

4. The intentional sacrifice of animals is cruel.

5. Responsibility is an unbreakable principle. A human can choose to forgive another, but he or she cannot take away the responsibility of the offender. He or she cannot give that responsibility to an animal. Killing that animal does not affect that person's innate responsibility.

6. The dead always stay dead.

7. A sacrifice requires actual loss.

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
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03-10-2013, 10:16 AM (This post was last modified: 03-10-2013 10:25 AM by kim.)
RE: Why is Jesus' death considered a sacrifice?
Why is Jesus' death considered a sacrifice?

Why?
Because grandstanding in lieu of remorse for irresponsibility, really brings in the numbers on the hard sell. Drinking Beverage

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03-10-2013, 10:24 AM
RE: Why is Jesus' death considered a sacrifice?
It never made sense to me, either. Jesus lost his life (the second time for reals), but what is that to a man who knew what awaited him after death? Dying isn't a sacrifice when you know you are going to eternal paradise.

Even if he didn't know what would happen, his death wasn't a sacrifice by God, it was an execution by the Jewish and Roman authorities. He broke blasphemy laws and was punished. It wasn't even voluntary; according to pretty much every version of the story, Judas identified Jesus to soldiers, who then arrested him and subjected him to his punishments. He didn't turn himself in and say "punish me now". He was a martyr, but his death wasn't a sacrifice.

If Jesus was God, then he wasn't even a martyr.

If something can be destroyed by the truth, it might be worth destroying.

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03-10-2013, 10:25 AM
RE: Why is Jesus' death considered a sacrifice?
(03-10-2013 10:16 AM)kim Wrote:  Why is Jesus' death considered a sacrifice?

Why?
Because grandstanding in leu of remorse for irresponsibility, really brings in the numbers on the hard sell. Drinking Beverage

Exactly....

It's a question that most religious types don't think to ask. Chalk it up as further truth god isn't omnipotent or omniscient.

Because, lets face it, if he knows all and sees all....he could simply have humans behave the way he wants...

And please no one bring up the whole free will thing...because if you believe in god just because you're afraid of hell...where is the free will in that?

Totally believe if more christians were honest with themselves they'd admit it -- that they don't really believe it all. They want, instead, to believe they're special and worthy.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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03-10-2013, 10:25 AM (This post was last modified: 03-10-2013 10:38 AM by absols.)
RE: Why is Jesus' death considered a sacrifice?
you are sadomaso not jesus

why do u keep calling urself guilty or that god should forgive u ..it is weird ..why how could u possibly think that u owe smthg from being mortals in condition of life so always done before what yourself conscious alone must carry
u dont realize ur being from any objective perspective

if there is something up they owe u a lot a lot

no mortal could ever b judged unless of course if they are really like those poweful gods, they are the animals cruauty and disgusting behaviors

what is a miserable self conscious being in everything

how could u believe being wrong

while u know that it is not the place the world is fine relatively bc its speaks to u with less evil of course
or without is better

u should know better, being so small when one must b relative to take care of himself right is a very positive thing, noone of u ever decided to b, u would decide if u could mean objective powers like those gods over things existence and others having to b as representing existence rights

like guitar nut said, wat happen to jesus that day was nothing compared to what always god do

they live only from those dirty pleasures of abusing isolations of conscious beings
it is the only way of being one powerful life from the positive right the being represent in truth

even when speaking in truth it wont change

they reached to join where they can benefit from powers over freedom abused rights and their true positive means still stands

so it is always through worse torture that they are present positive, not the reverse

so on the contrary god is angry when someone act right or is supported to

god is not the father of jesus, they are the same identity, positive so present in replacing present superiority

when they hear superiority they immediately move and start by willing to step on

they are freak bc like jealeous of truth when truth they know it is none

they see it as a thing they cant stay objective

it is the opportunity of true superiority from true inferiors

somewhere superiority and inferiority is one

the inferior so the shit is smwhere basically a superiority that went wrong

so it is the love to identify and justify themsevles as superior by killing true superiority

like satan and god are also one but with jesus it is more same abstract conception almost of being positive present sense

the image where it is principally promoting lies on the base of rights abuse and superior powers willing means to live, so the image accessory where it was relatively meaning smthg present, was about god through jesus knowing it, asking forgiveness from people, talking about love so where the anger is people reaction that refuse to forgive , even his students like reacted in truth seeing jesus meaning being superior as wrong they couldnt defend him while enjoying his powers and the sense of getting some hopes through a concern of the sky to men

wat always treat people of course jesus is that way too, like inferior for sure so with no respect to any equality right of being existing so to same reference somehow, they are of course hated in truth the hate that noone would say bc anyone is the positive present sense that can stand still
so u cant mean hate to god such living powerful fact possessing ur condition of being, cant possible mean itself in negative terms to conceive being out of it free, it is impossible, present is only positive bc true

but it is a lie, jesus and god never meant any forgiveness from people or being they constantly possess, on the contrary they want from them to pay constantly their nonexistence, to b grateful and meaning that they made them as they are and stick to character they decided them to wear as a living body inferior
for god and jesus nobody exist noone even they really believe being all

they dont take even true conscious seriously as being really

what matter is the truth that is why, they are evil according to truth so really absolute absolutely bad whatever they try to pretend not
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