Why is Jesus' death considered a sacrifice?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
04-10-2013, 02:16 AM
RE: Why is Jesus' death considered a sacrifice?
(03-10-2013 07:31 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  I always wondered why Jesus wasn't burning for eternity in Hell for our sins Undecided
THAT would have been one hell of a sacrifice Dodgy

what is ur logic in believing that another suffer allow you to live???

in all logical means, another suffer would emphasize on ur sins
any is only out of absolute identification

how an innocent hell wont mean yours being much worse

your logic is only leaning on knowing the subject god being all worse evil powers means

so getting the happiness of torturing an absolute right being, that would make him let some of his favorite slaves having fun or b in the mood for positive creations

it would mean a god from tortures life anyways

that is why a true tortures bc true makes him like truly positive

a lot could believe that darkness is the reason of light, bc of that mean

they see everything in reverse with delight surely for what they are so observe of themselves positive drives

truth is superiority infinitely and not inferiority and its consequences, this is a lie too

as if in truth anyone is suffering from void or emptyness, and life from what others are looking doing is the answer

it is not true, void is absolute positive sense, that is why meditations are always pointing and meaning that positive energy to exploit for living right

apparantly all lies mostly are for powers, killing truth and its life so its most true agents is getting to rule over all positiveness of void and superior existence facts
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-10-2013, 03:16 AM
RE: Why is Jesus' death considered a sacrifice?
(04-10-2013 02:16 AM)absols Wrote:  
(03-10-2013 07:31 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  I always wondered why Jesus wasn't burning for eternity in Hell for our sins Undecided
THAT would have been one hell of a sacrifice Dodgy

what is ur logic in believing that another suffer allow you to live???



There is no logic to it, substitutionary atonement (also derisively known in English as scapegoating) is immoral and illogical. However it would be far more compelling, from a simple layman perspective, if Jesus was still suffering in place of all of humanity. If the story went that Jesus was down in Hell suffering forever, so that no one need ever again suffer in Hell, that at least would be a somewhat meaningful sacrifice. In that case (hypothetically) Jesus really did give something up, sacrificing his eternal future for the souls of all of humanity. That at least could be seen as somewhat noble, unsubstantiated and unprovable, but a noble sentiment. But that's not even the story being sold. The story being sold is that he dies painfully, spent a long weekend in Hell, then came back out only to spend the rest of eternity ruling over all of creation from Heaven. How in the fucking hell is that at all considered a 'sacrifice', even if you believed in the efficacy of sacrifice? Jesus lost nothing. God lost nothing. There was no sacrifice.

That is why I if I was given the choice of being crucified and tortured for a weekend in exchange for power over all creation, I'd take that deal in a heartbeat.

[Image: GrumpyCat_01.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-10-2013, 04:52 AM
RE: Why is Jesus' death considered a sacrifice?
(03-10-2013 12:09 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Why ?
Because Saul of Tarsus, when he invented Paulianity, needed to compete with the Greek mystery cults. "Personal salvation/purification" is a Zoroastrian concept, absent in Hebrew culture. They did sacrifices for "ritual" (external) purification. (Saul got it from Mithraism .. Tarsus was a hotbed of Mitraism/Zoroastrianiam).
So Saul grafted/conflated the ideas, onto the new cult, and "salvation" was invented.
When the "young man" asked Jebus in the gospel what he had to do to obtain "eternal life", the gospel writer makes Jebus reply "Keep the commandments". Nothing else. No .. "Just wait, I'll be dying for your sins".
The role of a messiah was never to BE (a) the sacrifice. They invented it for marketing purposes.

AW Bucky....you SO SMART...and you know the history.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-10-2013, 05:08 AM
RE: Why is Jesus' death considered a sacrifice?
Christ’s Sacrificial Death

Paul invented the kooky concept that Christ was crucified to save souls from their sins. Why have plenty of people since accepted this peculiar idea?

Having the son of God become human, and free the faithful from the guilt and consequences of their sins, was an attractive story for a credulous congregation. It meant God was no longer a distant impersonal deity, like the character in the Old Testament, but someone more like them, with whom they could identify. Christ became an ally, a great guy, and everyone’s best friend. He would personally shoulder your punishment, provided you believed in him. Do that, and Paul promised you a free pass to salvation. Churches have since saturated people’s minds with this plan; today’s evangelical Christians, in particular, rarely question it. This is why they insist on believing in Jesus; so that sins can be forgiven and entry into heaven attained.

Yet the argument is irrational. Why would the son of God need to sacrifice himself to appease his father, who was also himself, for the sins of the world? Is not sacrificing anyone a pointless, barbaric act that punishes a scapegoat? Why would faith in this sacrifice be a ticket for entry into heaven? There's never been a good explanation for this nonsense despite numerous contrived attempts by theologians, because no sensible explanation is possible.

http://atheistfoundation.org.au/article/...atonement/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pla...zuxyq3ltls
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Mark Fulton's post
04-10-2013, 09:40 AM
RE: Why is Jesus' death considered a sacrifice?
In addition, to a true believer, Jesus never "died" at all. Because there is no such thing as death from that point of view, but merely a separation of the soul from the body where the soul continues on to the next realm of existence. In Jesus' case, his soul supposedly came back to this realm and rejoined with his body.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-10-2013, 02:29 PM (This post was last modified: 05-10-2013 12:31 PM by DeavonReye.)
RE: Why is Jesus' death considered a sacrifice?
When I was in christianity, people would weep over the idea of "Jesus going through all that pain to pay for my sins". I guess they feel that if it hurt enough, it must have been love.

But I bet that most christians are unaware of the actual back story of their own bible. More than that, I am amazed that they can't see the immorality of "a god who becomes so enraged that it requires something dying bloody [and burned] before this god can be satisfied. And with that, . . . the concept of a "human virgin sacrifice" [Jesus] . As has already been pointed out quite well, the "stepping in and taking the punishment" is not true justice. But these things make the christian weep, then feel good that they won't have to experience that, but get a free ticket to heaven. That's the end result, really. The height of selfishness and self preservation. Okay with a god who "is satisfied with the burnt carcass of an animal and a human sacrifice of "his son", along with all the other repulsive aspects of this god, endorcing slavery, mass genocide of other cultures, asking a man to prove himself by sacrificing his only son on an alter", . . . just so they can live in luxury forever in Heaven. AND, . . . [literally] "to hell with those who don't believe, . . . as long as I'm okay".

But for me, . . . it cannot be "love", but a system based upon the height of immorality. If I ever could be convinced to convert to christianity, I fear I would have to become far more evil than I care to be.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like DeavonReye's post
04-10-2013, 04:12 PM (This post was last modified: 04-10-2013 04:24 PM by absols.)
RE: Why is Jesus' death considered a sacrifice?
in truth the idea is about smthg else, that is why that relative abuse and aspect could b objectively meant in evil realms

the idea is about superiority which is the infinite truth, but also any conscious presence so a lot of free objective sources up

existence justifications is rights

but rights are also about needing considerations and recognitions of being present

but superiority sense is to never respect rights since they are always objective sources so out free present alone

being a source cut the source from else, isolate it with being superior, so the present value itself constant

while existence is to reality and being real is to realize oneself out of nothing in meaning else right objective perspective as the base to justify oneself right reality

right is an objective concept source of positive freedom sense

so it is the way to avoid superiority vice by being beyond it what is above superiority so always superior but to free logics, allowing reality to b

superiority vice is one, what is superior is always the point including all levels and facts values

so back to the topic, the idea in truth is more about superiority vice in general

leaving behind objective rights that could b down, since rights are objective existence by definition so always real beings

the idea in truth is superiority vice as wrong so rights must b superiority reference

then superiority must get down below rights and also nothing, bc wrong

only rights are positive present values while the way of rights is superiority, which is to infinity fact but cant exist for that

only rights justify existence

but evil knowing that reversed the meaning in truth

so to avoid mentionning superiority down, it becomes superiority judging sins being not rights and someone the most right shouting right right right in worse hell so the superiors would say, ok they became rights and u b their sins and invent how sin is right, so we superiors stay up
so instead of helping right people, jesus pick random people that god mean the evil free wills, so the image look like to give to sins powers so gods more life

it is machiavelic
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
06-10-2013, 03:02 PM
RE: Why is Jesus' death considered a sacrifice?
Whoever banned absols....thanks.

I think he meant well, but wasn't taking his meds.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
06-10-2013, 03:03 PM
RE: Why is Jesus' death considered a sacrifice?
(06-10-2013 03:02 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Whoever banned absols....thanks.

I think he meant well, but wasn't taking his meds.

Our Calvinist overlord said it was preordained. Wink

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Revenant77x's post
06-10-2013, 05:17 PM
RE: Why is Jesus' death considered a sacrifice?
If it were to happen, it was just a bad weekend. But, there is no reason to believe that it did happen.

Twitter: @doubtingdragon
http://doubtingdragon.wordpress.com
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: