Why is bestiality illegal?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
22-10-2012, 07:49 PM
Why is bestiality illegal?
Farmer's wife has gone to bed for the night...alone again.

After a little while, the farmer enters the bedroom carrying a pig.

Farmer says, "Honey, I have a confession to make. This is the pig that I've been fucking."

Enraged, the farmer's wife screams, "Pervert! I knew you were doing something horrible behind my back!!!"

The farmer looks at her and says, "Oh shut it. I wasn't talking to you!"

Drinking Beverage

"All that is necessary for the triumph of Calvinism is that good Atheists do nothing." ~Eric Oh My
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Erxomai's post
22-10-2012, 07:56 PM
RE: Why is bestiality illegal?
(22-10-2012 07:41 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(22-10-2012 06:59 PM)FreudianSlipped Wrote:  Skimmed the 11 pages.
Have we discussed consent?

Why? Were you planning on consenting? Big Grin

You are beastly.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
22-10-2012, 08:02 PM
Why is bestiality illegal?
(22-10-2012 07:56 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(22-10-2012 07:41 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  Why? Were you planning on consenting? Big Grin

You are beastly.

Aren't I though? Evil_monster

"All that is necessary for the triumph of Calvinism is that good Atheists do nothing." ~Eric Oh My
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
22-10-2012, 08:16 PM
RE: Why is bestiality illegal?
(22-10-2012 07:41 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(22-10-2012 06:59 PM)FreudianSlipped Wrote:  Skimmed the 11 pages.
Have we discussed consent?

Why? Were you planning on consenting? Big Grin
Ahaha, nah.
Neigh means neigh.

It's just relevant.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like FreudianSlipped's post
22-10-2012, 08:38 PM
RE: Why is bestiality illegal?
(22-10-2012 08:16 PM)FreudianSlipped Wrote:  
(22-10-2012 07:41 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  Why? Were you planning on consenting? Big Grin
Ahaha, nah.
Neigh means neigh.

It's just relevant.

Phew...I'm glad you have a sense of humor. Smile

I'm not going back through this horrid thread, but I do think the issues of consent were raised early on when Maggot Breath first brought up the topic.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of Calvinism is that good Atheists do nothing." ~Eric Oh My
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-10-2012, 11:41 PM
RE: Why is bestiality illegal?
(27-08-2012 03:12 PM)MisterMaggot Wrote:  As an animal rights activist I don't know how to deal with this controversial issue.

Most humans eat meat, meaning they can justify the murder of animals for food. They must also be able to justify the agricultural process: the masturbation of animals so their sperm can be collected for artificial insemination, the forced mating of animals etc. If these activities can be justified by society it is surprising that bestiality is prohibited. The argument may be that animals are required for food, however any vegetarian knows this is not true.

The usual argument against bestiality is that animals cannot give consent, however they cannot consent to the things listed above yet society doesn't prevent them happening. They cannot consent to being taken for a walk any more than they can consent to being eaten.

Morality is occasionally used as an argument against bestiality, however morality is subjective and has been used to justify the criminalization of homosexuality or sex before marriage.

Finally bestiality is used synonymously with animal abuse or rape. This is inaccurate as not all bestiality is forceful. A dog may mount a human of its own free will, animals can reject human advances by moving away, a human zoophile may make a concerted effort to avoid harming his animal partner etc.

Should people concerned with animal rights be pro or anti bestiality?

What it is really about is that you can't breed with an animal. We are too incompatible. As far as consenting to things, anything the animal will let you do without trying to get away or biting you is something that it consents to having done. I have an african grey. I have to ask her if I can pet her before I can run my hand down her back, and believe me she must answer yes or there is a bite coming. Remember what religion teaches. Sex must not be fun, it is only for making more babies (I mean more followers to brainwash from birth).
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
27-10-2012, 11:43 PM
RE: Why is bestiality illegal?
(27-08-2012 03:12 PM)MisterMaggot Wrote:  As an animal rights activist I don't know how to deal with this controversial issue.

Most humans eat meat, meaning they can justify the murder of animals for food. They must also be able to justify the agricultural process: the masturbation of animals so their sperm can be collected for artificial insemination, the forced mating of animals etc. If these activities can be justified by society it is surprising that bestiality is prohibited. The argument may be that animals are required for food, however any vegetarian knows this is not true.

The usual argument against bestiality is that animals cannot give consent, however they cannot consent to the things listed above yet society doesn't prevent them happening. They cannot consent to being taken for a walk any more than they can consent to being eaten.

Morality is occasionally used as an argument against bestiality, however morality is subjective and has been used to justify the criminalization of homosexuality or sex before marriage.

Finally bestiality is used synonymously with animal abuse or rape. This is inaccurate as not all bestiality is forceful. A dog may mount a human of its own free will, animals can reject human advances by moving away, a human zoophile may make a concerted effort to avoid harming his animal partner etc.

Should people concerned with animal rights be pro or anti bestiality?

It's an interesting topic that I've given a lot of thought to... but I'm not investing the time to read 11 pages of text. If my argument has been answered and rebutted already, be patient with me and do it again or refer me to the proper post.

While it may be true that "meat is murder", we have to survive by eating something. It's not cool how we treat livestock, but it isn't torture done without purpose -- we have to eat to survive.

I'm not cool with forced mating or masturbation of animals, either, for the same reason mentioned as the "usual argument": animals can't give informed consent. While it's true that we don't get their consent before walking a pet, that's not a harmful activity (certainly not comparable to rape, which is the issue that we're considering). And actions that would harm an animal, consent or not, are generally considered unacceptable.

While we may consider some animal sex with humans "consensual" (you mentioned a dog humping a leg, for example), we can't allow it as a general rule because it's simply not obvious enough whether the dog understands the difference between that and "real" sex (or even whether you do). Children often don't fight rape either because they don't understand what's happening or they trust the person doing it. But can we allow such sex just because it's "consensual"? Of course not. That's why I used the phrase "informed consent". And there's simply no way to understand the mind of an animal well enough to know if they understand the possible consequences of such an action.

As an atheist, I don't draw my morality from the bible and I couldn't care less about sex with animals if both members enjoy it. But because communication with animals is limited, it is currently unknowable and should be considered rape in the meantime.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-10-2012, 02:31 AM
RE: Why is bestiality illegal?
God dammit. I actually have a GREAT response to this ready-to-go on my computer...which is in the shop.

I'll get back to you on Friday. Lol

(No, it's not rape, yes, they can consent)

Through profound pain comes profound knowledge.
Ridi, Pagliaccio, sul tuo amore infranto! Ridi del duol, che t'avvelena il cor!
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-10-2012, 09:59 AM
RE: Why is bestiality illegal?
(28-10-2012 02:31 AM)Misanthropik Wrote:  God dammit. I actually have a GREAT response to this ready-to-go on my computer...which is in the shop.

I'll get back to you on Friday. Lol

(No, it's not rape, yes, they can consent)

I'm open to convincing on this subject, despite the "large amounts of time" I've spent thinking about this subject (because I'd rather have large amounts of time debating it in order to come to a conclusion). But I have had one debate on the subject, and while he made it clear that animals "can consent", it 1) couldn't be shown to be "informed" consent and 2) wasn't obvious enough so that the average person could recognize it... because if you legalize it, you have to assume that regular people without a biologist's understanding of animal nature will attempt to have sex with their pets. So I hope you've got something stronger than "biologists can recognize mating signals in animals".

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-10-2012, 03:53 PM
RE: Why is bestiality illegal?
(28-10-2012 09:59 AM)Starcrash Wrote:  
(28-10-2012 02:31 AM)Misanthropik Wrote:  God dammit. I actually have a GREAT response to this ready-to-go on my computer...which is in the shop.

I'll get back to you on Friday. Lol

(No, it's not rape, yes, they can consent)

I'm open to convincing on this subject, despite the "large amounts of time" I've spent thinking about this subject (because I'd rather have large amounts of time debating it in order to come to a conclusion). But I have had one debate on the subject, and while he made it clear that animals "can consent", it 1) couldn't be shown to be "informed" consent and 2) wasn't obvious enough so that the average person could recognize it... because if you legalize it, you have to assume that regular people without a biologist's understanding of animal nature will attempt to have sex with their pets. So I hope you've got something stronger than "biologists can recognize mating signals in animals".

With all due respect, I've just seen you move the goal-post, and then engage in the slippery-slope fallacy. You did so by changing consent to "informed" consent, and then claimed that we have to assume that legality will inspire laymen to start fucking their pets.

1) Someone who wants Sparky to lick their balls is going to try to get him to do it; regardless of its legality.

2) Even those with no background in Ethology (the study of animal behavior) can tell when an animal is willing to engage in sexual acts, and when it is not. Usually, a good bite to the hand or hoof to the skull will get the point across.

When it comes to consent, animals are incapable of signing a contract or even looking you in the eye and telling you that it's ok. That much is obvious. But animals have their OWN ways of giving consent. You're a human capable of higher intelligence, so to YOU, "informed consent" means more than simple "consent". That's a bias that you are allowing to get in the way, which is an error on your part. Animals do not reason as you do, so something that may *seem* unethical or objectionable to you will be anything but to the animal. This is where the "consent" argument tends to lose ground. You're assigning an anthropomorphic quality to an animal, and it doesn't work that way. With (most) animals, it's really very simple: if they're willing, they'll allow you to engage with them. If they're not, they'll avoid your advances. You may want something more in regard to "consent", but that's because you're a human. To most animals, that IS consent.

Again, I've got a lengthy argument on this (I've been in this debate several times before), but it's on my laptop, so it's not at my disposal at the moment.

Through profound pain comes profound knowledge.
Ridi, Pagliaccio, sul tuo amore infranto! Ridi del duol, che t'avvelena il cor!
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: