Why is bestiality illegal?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
28-10-2012, 04:03 PM
RE: Why is bestiality illegal?
Quote:When it comes to consent, animals are incapable of signing a contract or even looking you in the eye and telling you that it's ok. That much is obvious. But animals have their OWN ways of giving consent. You're a human capable of higher intelligence, so to YOU, "informed consent" means more than simple "consent". That's a bias that you are allowing to get in the way, which is an error on your part. Animals do not reason as you do, so something that may *seem* unethical or objectionable to you will be anything but to the animal. This is where the "consent" argument tends to lose ground. You're assigning an anthropomorphic quality to an animal, and it doesn't work that way. With (most) animals, it's really very simple: if they're willing, they'll allow you to engage with them. If they're not, they'll avoid your advances. You may want something more in regard to "consent", but that's because you're a human. To most animals, that IS consent.
I didn't read the whole topic. For domestic animals, sometimes they let you do shit to them they wouldn't normally do because you're in charge. I figure, if animals wanted to fuck humans, they'd do so WITHOUT the person "engaging" them. They don't. That's the reason only dogfuckers fuck their dogs. And I don't think we're talking about what's ethically ok to the animal, we're talking about what's ethically ok to humans, since we're all humans here and we are looking at this from a human point of view. And I think since we do have self-awareness and an idea of consent FOR OURSELVES, that's why it's not ok to fuck your pets.

Just like it's not ok to sexually take advantage of a child or someone mentally defective. Just because a retarded person may be into it and seem to give consent, many people would frown on it if you used them for sex toys. Same goes for using your pets as sex toys. Just because they get an erection or something doesn't make it ethical to use them for sex toys.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-10-2012, 04:15 PM
RE: Why is bestiality illegal?
(28-10-2012 04:03 PM)amyb Wrote:  
Quote:When it comes to consent, animals are incapable of signing a contract or even looking you in the eye and telling you that it's ok. That much is obvious. But animals have their OWN ways of giving consent. You're a human capable of higher intelligence, so to YOU, "informed consent" means more than simple "consent". That's a bias that you are allowing to get in the way, which is an error on your part. Animals do not reason as you do, so something that may *seem* unethical or objectionable to you will be anything but to the animal. This is where the "consent" argument tends to lose ground. You're assigning an anthropomorphic quality to an animal, and it doesn't work that way. With (most) animals, it's really very simple: if they're willing, they'll allow you to engage with them. If they're not, they'll avoid your advances. You may want something more in regard to "consent", but that's because you're a human. To most animals, that IS consent.
I didn't read the whole topic. For domestic animals, sometimes they let you do shit to them they wouldn't normally do because you're in charge. I figure, if animals wanted to fuck humans, they'd do so WITHOUT the person "engaging" them. They don't. That's the reason only dogfuckers fuck their dogs. And I don't think we're talking about what's ethically ok to the animal, we're talking about what's ethically ok to humans, since we're all humans here and we are looking at this from a human point of view. And I think since we do have self-awareness and an idea of consent FOR OURSELVES, that's why it's not ok to fuck your pets.

Just like it's not ok to sexually take advantage of a child or someone mentally defective. Just because a retarded person may be into it and seem to give consent, many people would frown on it if you used them for sex toys. Same goes for using your pets as sex toys. Just because they get an erection or something doesn't make it ethical to use them for sex toys.

As Sam Harris said, morality pertains to the level of harm we bring to another living thing. In this particular case, the fact that something *seems* unethical to us does not mean it actually is. We can view someone who "uses X as a sex toy" as cold and even a bit reprehensible, but that doesn't mean that what they're doing is wrong. If nobody is being harmed - mentally or physically - there is nothing wrong with what they're doing. If nobody is being hurt, there's no issue; regardless of what our human biases may have us believe.

As for animals engaging humans, they do it quite often. Humans are not the only ones who make the first move. There are countless YouTube comedy videos that can attest to that (horses trying to mount women, dogs "raping" people, etc.) But again, even if the human is the one to make the first move, and the animal submits purely because the human is viewed as being in charge; to the animal, that is how it works. That's how animals interact in the wild. They're programmed to submit to the alpha. So, to us, with our highly evolved sense of morality, it seems like we're taking advantage of that animal. But to the animal, that's just how things work.

Again, biases are being allowed to cloud our judgment.

Through profound pain comes profound knowledge.
Ridi, Pagliaccio, sul tuo amore infranto! Ridi del duol, che t'avvelena il cor!
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-10-2012, 05:08 PM
RE: Why is bestiality illegal?
I agree with Sam Harris when it comes to dealing with humans. However, I still think it's not right to use living beings as sex toys.

I'm not gonna Youtube it, but mounting/humping behaviour is not the same thing as a horse pacing in his stall, thinking, "I sure could go for a bit of man-ass right now." And as I see it, the horse making the first move is still not the same.

Anyway, my argument is that the human and the horse are not on the same level intellectually, and it means different things to each. Also, many animals genitals are different than human ones in shape and size, and harm can be caused by bestiality. I've read things on this, and sometimes dogs that were sexually abused will try to fuck people, but that's because they were trained to do so.

So by that line of thinking, if you're horny and can't get any through the usual means, it's ok to troll assisted living homes to pick up the mentally retarded, too? Because if you talk them into it and they don't say no, it's not harmful. They might even be flattered you invited them in for a drink. But I still think your friends and coworkers would find it reprehensible.

And some have said elsewhere that some people used to (and still do) find homosexuality "icky," so ickiness is not a good basis for finding sexual activity "wrong." However, I see homophobia as bigotry; and gays are ok because it's 2 consenting adults who happened to be born homosexuals. They are equals and can give each other consent to a sexual relationship. On the other hand, while some have a fetish for bestiality, it's not an orientation and the sides are unequal. So that's why I think it's different. Same reason I see pedophilia as wrong, there is an uneven balance of power and one party may be unequal intellectually.

On the other hand: dead people. As long as you do it out of view of friends and relatives, necrophilia isn't harming anyone.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes amyb's post
28-10-2012, 06:29 PM
RE: Why is bestiality illegal?
(28-10-2012 05:08 PM)amyb Wrote:  I agree with Sam Harris when it comes to dealing with humans. However, I still think it's not right to use living beings as sex toys.

I'm not gonna Youtube it, but mounting/humping behaviour is not the same thing as a horse pacing in his stall, thinking, "I sure could go for a bit of man-ass right now." And as I see it, the horse making the first move is still not the same.

Anyway, my argument is that the human and the horse are not on the same level intellectually, and it means different things to each. Also, many animals genitals are different than human ones in shape and size, and harm can be caused by bestiality. I've read things on this, and sometimes dogs that were sexually abused will try to fuck people, but that's because they were trained to do so.

So by that line of thinking, if you're horny and can't get any through the usual means, it's ok to troll assisted living homes to pick up the mentally retarded, too? Because if you talk them into it and they don't say no, it's not harmful. They might even be flattered you invited them in for a drink. But I still think your friends and coworkers would find it reprehensible.

And some have said elsewhere that some people used to (and still do) find homosexuality "icky," so ickiness is not a good basis for finding sexual activity "wrong." However, I see homophobia as bigotry; and gays are ok because it's 2 consenting adults who happened to be born homosexuals. They are equals and can give each other consent to a sexual relationship. On the other hand, while some have a fetish for bestiality, it's not an orientation and the sides are unequal. So that's why I think it's different. Same reason I see pedophilia as wrong, there is an uneven balance of power and one party may be unequal intellectually.

On the other hand: dead people. As long as you do it out of view of friends and relatives, necrophilia isn't harming anyone.

1) You may "think" it's wrong all you want, but that doesn't mean it is. That's my point.

2) Of course people (and animals) *can* be harmed by bestiality, but they can be harmed by traditional sex as well. My point, in that regard, was that if the animal and human are both enjoying certain activities, there's no moral issue.

3) When you use a laser-pointer to play with a cat, you are taking advantage of that animal's natural instincts for your personal amusement. Both you and th animal are intellectually unequal; the cat doesn't know it's pointless to chase the laser, so it acts instinctually, but you know better, and yet you do it anyway. And yet, I doubt you'd call this activity "wrong". It's no different when it comes to sexual activity. You're amused, the animal is amused. The fact that humans know better is irrelevant.

4) People finding the actions reprehensible is irrelevant. An appeal to popularity is fallacious. My overall point in this thread is that bestiality is illegal because people think its wrong, but their reasons for believing its wrong are unfounded.

5) Both Zoophilia and Pedophilia are simply paraphilias; not actions. Pedophilia is not the action. "Child molestation" is. (A bit off topic, but I had to address it)

Overall, everyone still seems to be assigning their OWN reasoning to the animals, and making a judgment about bestiality based on that. Your most frequently used words have been "in my view" and "the way I see it". But personal opinions are irrelevant. If we're gonna make a judgment, we have to be objective. That's the only reasonable way.

Through profound pain comes profound knowledge.
Ridi, Pagliaccio, sul tuo amore infranto! Ridi del duol, che t'avvelena il cor!
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-10-2012, 07:30 PM (This post was last modified: 28-10-2012 07:34 PM by amyb.)
RE: Why is bestiality illegal?
How do you know the animal just loves to fuck a human? Rape victims can show signs of arousal, women can lubricate and have orgasms, men can ejaculate from being raped. That doesn't mean they're enjoying the rape, that means their genitals are being stimulated. You are the one making assumptions that you know animals like sex with humans, whereas I am saying I do not know and that's why people shouldn't rape them.

Iit's "wrongness" is based on one-sided informed consent and unequal power relationship, which is exactly the same reason I think people shouldn't sexually take advantage of children, the mentally retarded, or even people in a persistent vegetative state.

By your reasoning, it's also perfectly ok to sneak into hospital rooms and fuck people who are in comas. Hey, if you try to masturbate a coma victim and he gets a stiffy, he's consenting!

Quote:Overall, everyone still seems to be assigning their OWN reasoning to the animals, and making a judgment about bestiality based on that.
Because we can't ask the animals to explain to us in English how they feel about it.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes amyb's post
28-10-2012, 09:52 PM
RE: Why is bestiality illegal?
I've explained it as best I can. If you don't get it, you don't get it, I suppose.

Through profound pain comes profound knowledge.
Ridi, Pagliaccio, sul tuo amore infranto! Ridi del duol, che t'avvelena il cor!
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-10-2012, 08:15 AM
RE: Why is bestiality illegal?
(27-08-2012 03:12 PM)MisterMaggot Wrote:  Finally bestiality is used synonymously with animal abuse or rape. This is inaccurate as not all bestiality is forceful. A dog may mount a human of its own free will, animals can reject human advances by moving away, a human zoophile may make a concerted effort to avoid harming his animal partner etc.

Should people concerned with animal rights be pro or anti bestiality?

There is a very simple reason why bestiality is illegal - and it doesn't have anything to do with rape or cruelty. See...due to the nature of our sexual drive, mankind has already been forced to concede to women the right of vote. Likewise, should we allow bestiality, then sooner or later we'd also have to grant sheep right to vote, too! Smile
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Julius's post
29-10-2012, 10:22 PM
RE: Why is bestiality illegal?
(28-10-2012 09:52 PM)Misanthropik Wrote:  I've explained it as best I can. If you don't get it, you don't get it, I suppose.

How do you judge if you think the animal is enjoying it.

It kind boils down in this argument to saying you can't say it's wrong because the animal willingly submits via it's nature. Just because an animal doesn't aggressively defend itself doesn't mean it is alright with the situation.

"Love is hot, Truth is molten!"
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-10-2012, 11:35 PM
RE: Why is bestiality illegal?
(29-10-2012 10:22 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(28-10-2012 09:52 PM)Misanthropik Wrote:  I've explained it as best I can. If you don't get it, you don't get it, I suppose.

How do you judge if you think the animal is enjoying it.

It kind boils down in this argument to saying you can't say it's wrong because the animal willingly submits via it's nature. Just because an animal doesn't aggressively defend itself doesn't mean it is alright with the situation.

This comes back to animals initiating the situation, and on repeated occasions. Being that bestiality is a taboo in most places, it's not exactly something were confronted with a lot, but animals have in fact been observed "enjoying" sexual activity with humans. This is especially notable in species which have sex for reasons other than procreation; such as dolphins. (Yes, believe it or not, people have managed long-term sexual relationships with dolphins)

Having said that, we're getting away from the main point. We've gone from legality to ethics to whether an animal enjoys sex with humans or not. That seems to happen often with this particular topic.

Through profound pain comes profound knowledge.
Ridi, Pagliaccio, sul tuo amore infranto! Ridi del duol, che t'avvelena il cor!
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
30-10-2012, 12:31 AM
RE: Why is bestiality illegal?
It's simple.
Animals can't say yes hence it's rape.
Rape is wrong.
Hence fucking animals is wrong.

I don't talk gay, I don't walk gay, it's like people don't even know I'm gay unless I'm blowing them.
[Image: 10h27hu.jpg]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread: Author Replies: Views: Last Post
  1 in 10 Deaths related to Alcohol, Marijuana still illegal Revenant77x 28 386 02-07-2014 09:07 PM
Last Post: Taqiyya Mockingbird
  Should chemical weapons be internationally illegal? I and I 7 514 12-09-2013 08:57 PM
Last Post: Tartarus Sauce
  Why is necrophilia illegal? MisterMaggot 62 9,861 23-01-2013 06:35 AM
Last Post: Vera
  Why should prostitution be illegal? namiloveyou 49 2,308 13-01-2013 07:01 PM
Last Post: Diablo
  National implications if NOT voting was made illegal? PoolBoyG 117 3,305 19-12-2012 10:25 AM
Last Post: Logica Humano
  Why Gay Marriage Should be Illegal FZUMedia 201 8,481 16-12-2012 03:43 AM
Last Post: earmuffs
Forum Jump: