Why is bestiality illegal?
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06-11-2013, 05:22 PM
RE: Why is bestiality illegal?
Go to a pork processing facility and ask the pigs what they think about it.

"Which is more likely: that the whole natural order is suspended, or that a jewish minx should tell a lie?"- David Hume
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06-11-2013, 08:32 PM
RE: Why is bestiality illegal?
(06-11-2013 04:17 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  
(12-11-2012 05:33 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  the main reason why womens groups are so against prostitution. If guys can go anywhere for it, it becomes stupid to with hold sex because you are angry about something.

Please tell me this is not serious?

This might get me in trouble, but there is nothing wrong with prostitution by itself. If adults of legal age voluntarily enter into an agreement to exchange sex for money then I don't see a problem and think it should be legal. It's like George Carlin said: "Selling is legal. Fucking is legal. Why is selling fucking illegal?" Consider

However, opposing prostitution from a human trafficking perspective could be legitimate, but it's the slavery and rape that makes it wrong not the sex for money part, and from what I understand that's the real reason most women's groups oppose it.

Although, Birdguy does make an interesting point about how easy access to sex might change the power dynamic between men and women. From what I understand, you may not have had the option to withhold sex in your marriage, LandI, but women who are married to guys who don't see "marital rape" as a contradiction in terms do use it as a negotiating tactic, and it would be much less effective if the guy had the option of stopping by a brothel on his way home. I wouldn't say it's necessarily a healthy way to deal with the underlying issue that lead the woman to impose involuntary celibacy on her man, but I have no doubt some men would go that route.

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06-11-2013, 09:13 PM
RE: Why is bestiality illegal?
(06-11-2013 08:32 PM)Can_of_Beans Wrote:  Although, Birdguy does make an interesting point about how easy access to sex might change the power dynamic between men and women.

Seriously? Where are all these women who primarily use sex as a bargaining tool? I haven't met any. All the women I know seem to enjoy sex as much as the men they're dating or married to. Is it really this much of a problem? So you're saying that, if prostitution were legal and readily available (and safe, hopefully), then you think everyone would be ok with being cheated on by their partner?

But yeah, I'm kind of baffled by this stuff, the idea that men only remain in relationships because prostitution isn't legal here.

I mean, I have no problem with open relationships, open marriages, polyamory, etc. as long as it's consentual and both partners agree, but that doesn't seem to be what you're talking about here.

Of course, you could just make sheepfucking legal. Or watch more porn.

Quote:but women who are married to guys who don't see "marital rape" as a contradiction in terms do use it as a negotiating tactic,
Those women need to get the fuck out of their relationships, then. As Dan Savage would say, DTMFA. I know it's not that always that easy, but you folks seem to be going from the idea of consentually selling sex to the idea of women in abusive relationships. The problem there is not the women, it's the fact that they're married to abusive rapists.
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06-11-2013, 09:18 PM
RE: Why is bestiality illegal?
(06-11-2013 08:32 PM)Can_of_Beans Wrote:  
(06-11-2013 04:17 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  Please tell me this is not serious?

This might get me in trouble, but there is nothing wrong with prostitution by itself. If adults of legal age voluntarily enter into an agreement to exchange sex for money then I don't see a problem and think it should be legal. It's like George Carlin said: "Selling is legal. Fucking is legal. Why is selling fucking illegal?" Consider

However, opposing prostitution from a human trafficking perspective could be legitimate, but it's the slavery and rape that makes it wrong not the sex for money part, and from what I understand that's the real reason most women's groups oppose it.

Although, Birdguy does make an interesting point about how easy access to sex might change the power dynamic between men and women. From what I understand, you may not have had the option to withhold sex in your marriage, LandI, but women who are married to guys who don't see "marital rape" as a contradiction in terms do use it as a negotiating tactic, and it would be much less effective if the guy had the option of stopping by a brothel on his way home. I wouldn't say it's necessarily a healthy way to deal with the underlying issue that lead the woman to impose involuntary celibacy on her man, but I have no doubt some men would go that route.

No no no, love, the problem is not that you don't think prostitution is bad. The problem is how completely sexist you sound when you say women don't like prostitution because if it were legal withholding sex would no longer work. Seriously? I have no problem with an independent man/woman who chooses to have sex for money. That is their deal. What I am not ok with are men and women who turn out young people who think they have no where else to turn and take most of their earnings to ensure that they indeed have no where else to turn ever.
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06-11-2013, 10:02 PM
RE: Why is bestiality illegal?
(06-11-2013 09:13 PM)amyb Wrote:  
(06-11-2013 08:32 PM)Can_of_Beans Wrote:  Although, Birdguy does make an interesting point about how easy access to sex might change the power dynamic between men and women.

Seriously? Where are all these women who primarily use sex as a bargaining tool? I haven't met any. All the women I know seem to enjoy sex as much as the men they're dating or married to. Is it really this much of a problem? So you're saying that, if prostitution were legal and readily available (and safe, hopefully), then you think everyone would be ok with being cheated on by their partner?

But yeah, I'm kind of baffled by this stuff, the idea that men only remain in relationships because prostitution isn't legal here.

I mean, I have no problem with open relationships, open marriages, polyamory, etc. as long as it's consentual and both partners agree, but that doesn't seem to be what you're talking about here.

Of course, you could just make sheepfucking legal. Or watch more porn.

Quote:but women who are married to guys who don't see "marital rape" as a contradiction in terms do use it as a negotiating tactic,
Those women need to get the fuck out of their relationships, then. As Dan Savage would say, DTMFA. I know it's not that always that easy, but you folks seem to be going from the idea of consentually selling sex to the idea of women in abusive relationships. The problem there is not the women, it's the fact that they're married to abusive rapists.

I didn't mean to imply that women use it as a primary negotiation tactic, but it does happen. If you're looking for a specific example, I'll put you in touch with my ex-wife.

I'm also not endorsing the idea of going to a prostitute in that situation, saying anyone would be OK with being cheated on or suggesting that the only reason men stay in relationships is because prostitution is illegal. People still get married in countries and states where it is legal, so there would be no rational basis to make that claim.

@LostandInsecure, I also didn't say that women don't like prostitution because it weakens their negotiating position - that was Birdguy's stance. It's my understanding women don't like it because of legitimate concerns like human trafficking and other forms of exploitation.

All I did was explore the idea that if a woman did withhold sex as a negotiating tactic she would have more leverage if the man did not have other options. Another example might be sending a kid to their room without dinner. The punishment looses it's effectiveness if they have a bag of chips stashed somewhere compared to actually going hungry.*

*Just to be clear, I'm not endorsing that as a method of discipline either.

"I feel as though the camera is almost a kind of voyeur in Mr. Beans life, and you just watch this bizarre man going about his life in the way that he wants to."

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06-11-2013, 10:10 PM
RE: Why is bestiality illegal?
(06-11-2013 09:18 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  No no no, love, the problem is not that you don't think prostitution is bad. The problem is how completely sexist you sound when you say women don't like prostitution because if it were legal withholding sex would no longer work. Seriously?
This.

Quote:I didn't mean to imply that women use it as a primary negotiation tactic, but it does happen. If you're looking for a specific example, I'll put you in touch with my ex-wife.
I mean I see this sort of thing said a lot, and I have difficulty believing what a huge problem it is. It seems to be implying that women don't enjoy sex, since they use it for negotiation. If your relationships have that sort of power struggle going on with using sex as a bargaining tactic, I'd question whether or not it's worth remaining in such a relationship.

So if a women was married to a man who rapes her, you think if he was fucking prostitutes, suddenly everything would be hunky dory in the marriage?

Quote:All I did was explore the idea that if a woman did withhold sex as a negotiating tactic she would have more leverage if the man did not have other options. Another example might be sending a kid to their room without dinner. The punishment looses it's effectiveness if they have a bag of chips stashed somewhere compared to actually going hungry.*
Again, this suggests that sex is just used as a reward, that it's the reason women have sex. This just seems like a very outdated idea from the days when it was frowned upon for a women to say she liked sex and only did it as a "duty" to her husband.

Quote:. It's my understanding women don't like it because of legitimate concerns like human trafficking and other forms of exploitation.
So it's only women who are against human trafficking and exploitation? Probably not what you're saying, but it seems strange to me to put it like that.
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06-11-2013, 10:16 PM
RE: Why is bestiality illegal?
(06-11-2013 10:02 PM)Can_of_Beans Wrote:  @LostandInsecure, I also didn't say that women don't like prostitution because it weakens their negotiating position - that was Birdguy's stance. It's my understanding women don't like it because of legitimate concerns like human trafficking and other forms of exploitation.

All I did was explore the idea that if a woman did withhold sex as a negotiating tactic she would have more leverage if the man did not have other options. Another example might be sending a kid to their room without dinner. The punishment looses it's effectiveness if they have a bag of chips stashed somewhere compared to actually going hungry.*

*Just to be clear, I'm not endorsing that as a method of discipline either.

Where the hell are you from?
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06-11-2013, 10:24 PM
RE: Why is bestiality illegal?
(06-11-2013 10:10 PM)amyb Wrote:  
Quote:. It's my understanding women don't like it because of legitimate concerns like human trafficking and other forms of exploitation.
So it's only women who are against human trafficking and exploitation? Probably not what you're saying, but it seems strange to me to put it like that.

I agree. Everyone should be opposed to human trafficking and exploitation, so I probably could have phrased that better.

"I feel as though the camera is almost a kind of voyeur in Mr. Beans life, and you just watch this bizarre man going about his life in the way that he wants to."

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06-11-2013, 10:26 PM
RE: Why is bestiality illegal?
(06-11-2013 10:02 PM)Can_of_Beans Wrote:  @LostandInsecure, I also didn't say that women don't like prostitution because it weakens their negotiating position - that was Birdguy's stance. It's my understanding women don't like it because of legitimate concerns like human trafficking and other forms of exploitation.

Oops sorry I must have responded to the wrong person.
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06-11-2013, 10:28 PM
RE: Why is bestiality illegal?
I just mean that to even mention the negotiating with sex thing seems to imply that it's a huge thing with most/all women in most/all relationships, rather than, say, a sign that the couple lacks communication, are incompatible sexually, or that the relationship is going through a bad time.
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