Why is god surprised by our behavior?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
10-12-2013, 01:30 PM
Why is god surprised by our behavior?
Even when I was sort of a believer I never understood why god was surprised by our failings. He either created people thinking we'd be better behaved and then was surprised by our evilness or he purposely created us this way so he could scold/ send us to hell for acting the way we were programmed.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-12-2013, 01:34 PM
RE: Why is god surprised by our behavior?
He was a flawed god, the Gnostics believed this and were pretty much wiped out since that is heresy to other sects.

"I don't have to have faith, I have experience." Joseph Campbell
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-12-2013, 01:37 PM
RE: Why is god surprised by our behavior?
(10-12-2013 01:30 PM)Chrisinfp Wrote:  Even when I was sort of a believer I never understood why god was surprised by our failings. He either created people thinking we'd be better behaved and then was surprised by our evilness or he purposely created us this way so he could scold/ send us to hell for acting the way we were programmed.

Surprised?

Define what you mean by surprised.

Also, please reference which instances you are talking about.

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-12-2013, 01:46 PM
RE: Why is god surprised by our behavior?
I guess I'm talking about the creation myth, then the flood and then Jesus having to remove our sins. He seemed either stupid or evil
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-12-2013, 01:51 PM
RE: Why is god surprised by our behavior?
But keep in mind that KC is a theist, and a CALVINIST to boot.

KC, you really should disclose that up front. Really.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-12-2013, 01:59 PM (This post was last modified: 10-12-2013 02:12 PM by kingschosen.)
RE: Why is god surprised by our behavior?
(10-12-2013 01:51 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  But keep in mind that KC is a theist, and a CALVINIST to boot.

KC, you really should disclose that up front. Really.

Click my name.

Edit: I usually do, though. But, my question to him didn't really depend on if I was a theist or not. I was just asking for him to be more specific and to provide references.

But, I get what you're saying. Sometimes I get lazy, and forget to mention that I'm a theist.

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-12-2013, 02:10 PM
RE: Why is god surprised by our behavior?
(10-12-2013 01:46 PM)Chrisinfp Wrote:  I guess I'm talking about the creation myth, then the flood and then Jesus having to remove our sins. He seemed either stupid or evil

It's a fair assessment.

I was just getting you used to referencing and defining a claim.

Moreover, understanding who you're challenging. Since the claim made by you is fairly irrelevant to non-literalists, it opens your argument up to different attack strategies by theists.

Ex:
I would say that the creation story is a story used by a lot of ANE cultures, and it was adapted by the Hebrew culture and inspired by God to convey a message; not a literal story - much like parables.

With that, it shuts downs your argument because you weren't specific in who you were addressing. Bible Literalists have a big problem with this concept, though, so you were on the right track. Bible Literalists also tend to be Arminian, so you attack that concept as well in terms of God not being all knowing or all powerful even though they assert that He is.

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-12-2013, 02:11 PM
RE: Why is god surprised by our behavior?
Like Grizzlysnake said, people used to believe that God had human-like traits and was not perfect. If you read through the Old Testament (especially the early books) without any lens of Christianity or any notions of omnipotence/omnibenevolence, you get an entirely different picture of God. He has a huge amount of limitations that only make sense if you either figure that it's just one part of a larger collection of mythology, or start making excuses that he was actually sandbagging because of [reasons].

Christians didn't get the notion that God was all powerful or all loving from the Bible; he's clearly not in the source material. Those attributes were added on later because that's how they wanted their god to be. They're just sort of stuck with their antiquated Bible and a metric tonne of apologetics to get it to all stick together.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes RobbyPants's post
10-12-2013, 02:17 PM
RE: Why is god surprised by our behavior?
(10-12-2013 02:10 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(10-12-2013 01:46 PM)Chrisinfp Wrote:  I guess I'm talking about the creation myth, then the flood and then Jesus having to remove our sins. He seemed either stupid or evil

It's a fair assessment.

I was just getting you used to referencing and defining a claim.

Moreover, understanding who you're challenging. Since the claim made by you is fairly irrelevant to non-literalists, it opens your argument up to different attack strategies by theists.

Ex:
I would say that the creation story is a story used by a lot of ANE cultures, and it was adapted by the Hebrew culture and inspired by God to convey a message; not a literal story - much like parables.

With that, it shuts downs your argument because you weren't specific in who you were addressing. Bible Literalists have a big problem with this concept, though, so you were on the right track. Bible Literalists also tend to be Arminian, so you attack that concept as well in terms of God not being all knowing or all powerful even though they assert that He is.

Of course that leave KC open to the counter punch of "Without a literal Genesis there was no original sin and thus no need for any covenant or sacrifice (Animal or Human) to atone" To which he will eventually just conceed his god is kind of a capricious asshole that just did it for the Lulz.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Revenant77x's post
10-12-2013, 02:17 PM
RE: Why is god surprised by our behavior?
(10-12-2013 01:30 PM)Chrisinfp Wrote:  Even when I was sort of a believer I never understood why god was surprised by our failings. He either created people thinking we'd be better behaved and then was surprised by our evilness or he purposely created us this way so he could scold/ send us to hell for acting the way we were programmed.
He is not surprised. But He knows that we all can do better. And we know that we can do better. And I know that I can do better. I can be more patient, more kind, more compassionate, more honest, etc. That is all is needed.

English is not my native language.
that awkward moment between the Premortal Existence and your Resurrection
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: