Why is it ok to hate fat people?
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24-04-2012, 09:11 AM
RE: Why is it ok to hate fat people?
(24-04-2012 08:20 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(24-04-2012 08:15 AM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, Germany.


Because they aren't true.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
So, we are imagining fat people stuffing themselves with fatty foods?

Got ya. Thanks for clearing that up.
No, you are noticing them. Big difference. The skinny dude from accounting bought donuts at the vending machine too. But you didn't notice because he didn't fit into your stereotype of skinny accountants.

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24-04-2012, 09:14 AM
RE: Why is it ok to hate fat people?
(24-04-2012 09:11 AM)Stark Raving Wrote:  
(24-04-2012 08:20 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  So, we are imagining fat people stuffing themselves with fatty foods?

Got ya. Thanks for clearing that up.
No, you are noticing them. Big difference. The skinny dude from accounting bought donuts at the vending machine too. But you didn't notice because he didn't fit into your stereotype of skinny accountants.
Half decent explanation for this scenario. But sterotypes exist because of observation. There is certainly enough evidence to suggest that the average fat person eats more doughnuts than the average skinny person.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
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24-04-2012, 09:28 AM
RE: Why is it ok to hate fat people?
(24-04-2012 09:14 AM)germanyt Wrote:  
(24-04-2012 09:11 AM)Stark Raving Wrote:  No, you are noticing them. Big difference. The skinny dude from accounting bought donuts at the vending machine too. But you didn't notice because he didn't fit into your stereotype of skinny accountants.
Half decent explanation for this scenario. But sterotypes exist because of observation. There is certainly enough evidence to suggest that the average fat person eats more doughnuts than the average skinny person.
I agree, but remember what I am addressing; the sarcastic, "got ya, we're just imagining it" statement from KC. There was no suggestion that it was imagined. I'm fairly confident that Ghost was addressing what was perceived, and how stereotyping can twist that perception.

Stereotypes exist because of observation? I would say that, in part, yes. But stereotypes don't work as an effective judgement tool because they skew what we observe.

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24-04-2012, 09:31 AM
RE: Why is it ok to hate fat people?
Buuuuut, stereotyping can be funny. Tongue

Some of the best jokes are built around stereotyping. I would agree that they aren't an effective "judgement tool" though... simply an amusing one.

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24-04-2012, 09:50 AM
RE: Why is it ok to hate fat people?
(24-04-2012 09:31 AM)frankiej Wrote:  Buuuuut, stereotyping can be funny. Tongue

Some of the best jokes are built around stereotyping. I would agree that they aren't an effective "judgement tool" though... simply an amusing one.
Perhaps funny to you, but what about the woman who bought the donuts from the vending machine? What about the overweight forum member reading this thread? What about the black guy who gets discriminated against because the store owner has heard so many "funny" jokes about how black people are thieves that he's come to believe it?

I don't find stereotyping funny at all. I am not perfect, and hold plenty of pre conceived notions. But becoming a better person means recognizing those pre conceived notions, and working towards letting them go. When they are made into jokes, it may lighten the mood at the time, but it also reinforces the stereotype. That's no laughing matter.

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24-04-2012, 09:54 AM
RE: Why is it ok to hate fat people?
(24-04-2012 09:28 AM)Stark Raving Wrote:  
(24-04-2012 09:14 AM)germanyt Wrote:  Half decent explanation for this scenario. But sterotypes exist because of observation. There is certainly enough evidence to suggest that the average fat person eats more doughnuts than the average skinny person.
I agree, but remember what I am addressing; the sarcastic, "got ya, we're just imagining it" statement from KC. There was no suggestion that it was imagined. I'm fairly confident that Ghost was addressing what was perceived, and how stereotyping can twist that perception.

Stereotypes exist because of observation? I would say that, in part, yes. But stereotypes don't work as an effective judgement tool because they skew what we observe.
No.

Fact - Fatty foods are a catalyst for being fat (not necessarily the reason, but a big contributor).
Fact - If you're fat, and you're eating fatty foods, you're getting fatter.
Fact - Skinny people eat fatty foods, but they don't get fat (variety of reasons from lifestyle to genetics).
Fact - The majority of fat people are fat because of their lifestyle and food choices.
Fact - You are more likely to be fat if you have poor eating habits.

Therefore, the stereotype that fat people stuff their face with fatty foods is based in good facts. There are a small portion of fat people that are fat because of medical reasons, though; but, more than likely, the stereotype is, indeed, true.

To say "No, you're just observing it" is a poor excuse.

If I come upon a scene of an accident, and I observe things, I can make a pretty strong conclusion as to what happened.

The guy stumbling around with a 40 in hand whose car is slammed into the side of a soccer mom's minivan more than likely caused the wreck. Now, the soccer mom was involved in the wreck, and she could have caused it, but it's unlikely based on my observation, deductive reasoning, and yes, stereotyping.

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24-04-2012, 10:12 AM
RE: Why is it ok to hate fat people?
I think that certain stereotypes are used due to their ability to convey an image. Do you remember the movie "White Men Can't Jump'? Were it not for the stereotypes out there, widespread, no one would have had a clue what this meant. It would never have been used as a title.

I try to take everyone as they present themselves. I don't look at a person or another race, a sexual preference other than mine, and other such things and instantly decide who and what they are.

That said, I can pretty much guess which of two ethnic groups the driver is when I get behind or around someone driving like a bonehead. This is because of the population makeup where I live and the number of times it has proven to be true. Do I think everyone of those groups drives like a bonehead? No, of course not.

Stereotyping does have it's roots in observing certain behaviors from certain groups. Often, but not always. Some stereotyping is taught and the person holds those ideas for no other reason than that's what they heard growing up, kinda like that whole religion thing.

The important thing is that the stereotype isn't written in stone. Making a blanket decision of a whole group based on the actions or traits of a few is always wrong.

In humor, conversation, movies, songs, advertising...stereotyping is a shortcut. It brings about images that most people understand without having to go into a long explanation. Does that make it right? No, probably not, but that's the way it is.

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24-04-2012, 10:18 AM
RE: Why is it ok to hate fat people?
(24-04-2012 10:12 AM)Anjele Wrote:  I think that certain stereotypes are used due to their ability to convey an image. Do you remember the movie "White Men Can't Jump'? Were it not for the stereotypes out there, widespread, no one would have had a clue what this meant. It would never have been used as a title.


But white men can't jump. It's a fact that black men have a much larger percentage of fast twitch muscle fibers than white men. Whites having more slow twitch. Basically means that a white man can push a wall over but a black man can just jump over it. Fast twitch muscle fibers are also highly metabolic and also catabolic. Which is why you see so many lean, thin, but athletic black guys. White guys in athletics tend to be bigger and stronger but slower and carry more bodyfat.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
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24-04-2012, 10:22 AM
RE: Why is it ok to hate fat people?
(24-04-2012 10:18 AM)germanyt Wrote:  
(24-04-2012 10:12 AM)Anjele Wrote:  I think that certain stereotypes are used due to their ability to convey an image. Do you remember the movie "White Men Can't Jump'? Were it not for the stereotypes out there, widespread, no one would have had a clue what this meant. It would never have been used as a title.


But white men can't jump. It's a fact that black men have a much larger percentage of fast twitch muscle fibers than white men. Whites having more slow twitch. Basically means that a white man can push a wall over but a black man can just jump over it. Fast twitch muscle fibers are also highly metabolic and also catabolic. Which is why you see so many lean, thin, but athletic black guys. White guys in athletics tend to be bigger and stronger but slower and carry more bodyfat.
Yeah but I don't think is was a movie title to inspire people to examine differing physical makeups. Rolleyes

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24-04-2012, 10:29 AM
RE: Why is it ok to hate fat people?
And when you accuse the guy of being drunk, then discover he is stumbling from hitting his head in the accident, and the bottle he is carrying was found in the ditch and he filled it with water in an attempt to douse the fire that would otherwise kill the soccer mom and her kids?

Sure it's not nearly as likely as your scenario, but the point is that you are drawing conclusions without ENOUGH evidence. Just like drawing the conclusion that "fat people stuff their faces" (which, by the way is one hell of a nasty way of putting it, and I think is far beneath you) when the person in question is one of the few who have a genetic disorder or whatnot.

The most important fact here is that the stereotype leads you to a conclusion without evidence. An overweight person is that way for a reason. Using a stereotype gets you no closer to discovering that reason, it only helps you guess. We're talking about people here. Is it ok to just guess, then have a laugh at their expense because your guess happens to amuse you? I'm not willing to hurt someone based on a "more than likely" scenario.

Let's add some more facts to the list:
FACT - genetic pre-dispositions towards being overweight are on a steady increase
FACT - overcoming poor eating habits and lack of knowledge is not as simple as just eating better.
FACT - people can become so overwhelmed by stereotypes that it can lead to severe depression and suicide. (regardless of whether someone's weight issues are self inflicted or not, the joke doesn't seem so funny when it's the final straw the drives a person to hopelessness)

What I'm trying to convey here is not that the stereotype is less than likely to be true. It's that by using a stereotype, you turn individuals into a group that gets covered easily by blanket statements like, "fat people stuff their faces with fatty foods" which is unfair and hurtful to people whether they fall into this group or not.

I say again......these are people we're talking about. Isn't it worth the effort to seek out the individuals reasons for being overweight, instead of stereotyping them, and then waiting for the facts? It seems so backwards to me.

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