Why is it that creationist are trying to disprove evolution
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
13-11-2015, 07:19 PM
RE: Why is it that creationist are trying to disprove evolution
(13-11-2015 07:07 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  What will it take to prove to you that God exists?

Once I get past this sticky and tricky business of finding a valid and sound argument against solipsism, God follows immediately. Because I AM God. But I'm not at all sure there even is a valid and sound argument against solipsism.

#sigh
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
13-11-2015, 07:27 PM
RE: Why is it that creationist are trying to disprove evolution
(13-11-2015 07:07 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  What will it take to prove to you that God exists?



Which god Jason? Aphrodite, Zeus, Poseidon, Thor, Mithra......

Gods are nothing more than fictional characters, like Darth Vader and Starbuck.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Banjo's post
13-11-2015, 07:42 PM
RE: Why is it that creationist are trying to disprove evolution
(13-11-2015 07:07 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Ok I am back for a moment in order to give you my answer to the dozens of counter arguments. I cannot emphasize enough that I am not trying dodge the questions or be like all the others theist that evaded what they could not explain. Absolutely all the counter arguments that have been mentioned I have seen or thought about myself. Remember, after my wife was murdered I had a very good reason to question the existence of God, especially the God of the bible. Now I know that many are going to be furious but I cannot in good conscience try to provide evidence to support my beliefs. Not because I don't have any but because I know the path that we will inevitably go.

I tell you what I believe simply because I was asked. You ask for evidence to support that belief and I provide. You provide counter evidence to discredit my evidence then I give evidence to counter the counter evidence. Then people who are not following the whole thread jumps in and makes the same counter arguments that were previously covered thus forcing me to repeat myself. Until inevitable if comes down to the proof of the existence of God. Not just the God of the bible but any god which is where the progression of the argument stops. It stops because I cannot prove a god exist and nobody can prove that a god does not exist.

To have theist vs atheist debate is futile for me because the best you can ever hope to achieve is prove the God of the bible does not exist which will result in me turning to Deism.

I know this is not the answer you are looking for and I apologize if anyone is upset. So let's cut to the chase. If you want to have a debate on religion first everyone answer one question. What will it take to prove to you that God exists? I will tell you that the only way to prove to me that God does not exist is by somehow using a time machine to take me back to the origins of the universe to witness it's creation first hand. Or to take me back to the first century to actually witness first hand who Jesus really was (if he existed at all).

This is why I make no attempt to convert you. Because I am sure that whatever proof that you require for the existence of God is almost as impossible to provide as my unlikely request.

Thank you for your insight. I very much enjoy the discussions.

Either you have evidence, in which case you don't need faith,
or you have faith in which case evidence is unnecessary.

The death of your wife is in perfect accord with the God of the Bible, a capricious, vindictive, blood-thirsty, monster.
It is also in perfect accord with a universe with no god at all.

What it is not in accord with is a benevolent god.
So go ahead and worship that monster, but don't expect your beliefs to be respected.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 5 users Like Chas's post
13-11-2015, 07:46 PM (This post was last modified: 13-11-2015 08:16 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Why is it that creationist are trying to disprove evolution
(13-11-2015 07:07 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  ... . Not just the God of the bible but any god which is where the progression of the argument stops. It stops because I cannot prove a god exist and nobody can prove that a god does not exist. ... take me back to the origins of the universe to witness it's creation first hand. Or to take me back to the first century to actually witness first hand who Jesus really was ....

Neither of those two are going to help. Observing the origins of the universe, (if that makes any sense) tells one nothing about the conditions from which it arose. There could have been an infinite series and bangs and collapses. Watching one, is not going to make any difference. Paul said that faith was a gift. "Seeing Jesus" didn't help most of those who (may) have witnessed him. Either you "are given the gift" or you're not. "Many are called , but few are chosen".

The god of the Bible is obviously a farce. Yahweh was the 70th son of the Babylonian chief deity, El Elyon, (even says that in the bible). The Hebrews chose him to help them in their expansionary land battles. He was the war god. The "Lord of hosts". (A "host" was an arrayed army in battle formation.)

Most of the OT has been debunked. No patriarchs, no Exodus, no Moses, no Joshua, no Adam, no Eve, no Noah, no Isaac, no Jacob. All debunked by archaeology.




Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Bucky Ball's post
13-11-2015, 08:46 PM
RE: Why is it that creationist are trying to disprove evolution
(13-11-2015 07:27 PM)Banjo Wrote:  
(13-11-2015 07:07 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  What will it take to prove to you that God exists?



Which god Jason? Aphrodite, Zeus, Poseidon, Thor, Mithra......

Gods are nothing more than fictional characters, like Darth Vader and Starbuck.
Doesn't have to be any specific god. Just a god period.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
13-11-2015, 09:54 PM
RE: Why is it that creationist are trying to disprove evolution
(13-11-2015 08:46 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Doesn't have to be any specific god. Just a god period.
What is your falsifiable definition of a god?
What compelling evidence supports that position?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Stevil's post
13-11-2015, 10:01 PM
RE: Why is it that creationist are trying to disprove evolution
(13-11-2015 03:06 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(13-11-2015 02:58 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  If a "sin nature" is a thing, this mitigates any concept of choice, it also reveals this god concept as fundamentally evil. He created us without any capacity for being sinless and then demands a ridiculously unjust punishment for us doing exactly what we were created to do.

Nonono it's perfectly fine. God is the one who define's what's good, see? Little things like tribal genocides are fine because God said it was OK. We might not see the big picture but He does. You can't say that it's unjust when the concept of justice derives from God. Rolleyes We are just his little robot toys, how can a robot toy say what is just or unjust according to its maker?

Although the maker does claim to *love* us in his own weird, twisted and sadistic way Unsure

[Image: 6a00d83451580669e201543823d264970c-pi]

Don't let those gnomes and their illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions.

--Jake the Dog, Adventure Time

Alouette, je te plumerai.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Old Man Marsh's post
13-11-2015, 11:07 PM
RE: Why is it that creationist are trying to disprove evolution
Hello again, glad things are seemingly going swell for you and yours. Smile

First, sorry for 'editing' your words in my below quote, just wanting to focus on certain areas, kind of thing.

(13-11-2015 07:07 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  I tell you what I believe simply because I was asked.

I think people are asking for your thoughts on things, maybe not quite exactly 'What you believe". Every one is unique and different with very different experiences etc. So, more sort of a grounding or 'Meeting of the minds' kind of thing. Maybe? Perhaps? Unsure

(13-11-2015 07:07 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  You ask for evidence to support that belief and I provide.

Again, from my perusal of the thread so far it seems more of a search for why you're thinking the way you do so as others can reach an understanding. Even as you're kind of asking people here what they are thinking so as to reach and understanding. Smile

(13-11-2015 07:07 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  You provide counter evidence to discredit my evidence then I give evidence to counter the counter evidence.

I wouldn't call what people are posting as 'Counter evidence'... just them simply trying to explain why what you've posted doesn't make sense to their way of thinking.

(13-11-2015 07:07 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  ............Until inevitably it comes down to the proof of the existence of God. Not just the God of the bible but any god which is where the progression of the argument stops. It stops because I cannot prove a god exist....

That bit I underlined? That is the sticking bit. That, I thinking my humble -uneducated- opinion, is the crux of the matter. Not the words that follow.


(13-11-2015 07:07 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  ....... and nobody can prove that a god does not exist.

Well... again, most of the reply posts from others here have not acutally been about things not existing, as such. (Am sure folks will point out where they are etc. Tongue )

(13-11-2015 07:07 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  To have theist vs atheist debate is futile for me because the best you can ever hope to achieve is prove the God of the bible does not exist which will result in me turning to Deism.

And here I think you're flipping things back to front. Again.. the Non-theist isn't/doesn't have to or need to do anything. Their world view is ticking along quite nicely simply as it is. Nothing more, nothing extra.

(13-11-2015 07:07 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  .......... If you want to have a debate on religion first everyone answer one question. What will it take to prove to you that God exists?

Well.. as Chas ha pointed out. If you've actually got some evidence.. then everything else is a forgone conclusion. no? But, since I've already undelined your comment of you seeming to not have any evidence? (Please correct myself if I am incorrect in my comments though)

(13-11-2015 07:07 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  I will tell you that the only way to prove to me that God does not exist is by somehow using a time machine to take me back to the origins of the universe to witness it's creation first hand.

No. Again, you're reversing things. Flipping things backwards. it's not,

"IF you prove a deity does not exist."

It should be,

"Here is the evidence for the why of said deity existing."


(13-11-2015 07:07 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Or to take me back to the first century to actually witness first hand who Jesus really was (if he existed at all).

Well... we don't really need to and do amazing things like that, do we? Surely you're happy with Cosmologists, Geologists, Astronomers, Paleontologists, etc and the way they work out how things were happening a long time ago?

There are lots of folks who seem quite well versed in history about on the boards to have such chats with. Smile

(13-11-2015 07:07 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  This is why I make no attempt to convert you.

Hug

(13-11-2015 07:07 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Because I am sure that whatever proof that you require for the existence of God is almost as impossible to provide as my unlikely request.

Um.. well.. technically... any one providing any proof for the existence of any deity would needs be looked at, evaluated, discussed etc. Would it not? Unsure

(13-11-2015 07:07 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Thank you for your insight. I very much enjoy the discussions.

Big Grin

Right back at ya, mate!

Thumbsup
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Peebothuhul's post
14-11-2015, 05:37 AM
RE: Why is it that creationist are trying to disprove evolution
(13-11-2015 07:07 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Now I know that many are going to be furious but I cannot in good conscience try to provide evidence to support my beliefs. Not because I don't have any but because I know the path that we will inevitably go.

What path is that? I'm honestly curious what you think is inevitable. I have my own thoughts on what the inevitable outcome would be but I'd like to hear yours first.

Quote:It stops because I cannot prove a god exist and nobody can prove that a god does not exist.

The time to believe something is when there is evidence to support the claim. "You can't prove it isn't true" is not a reasonable argument. I can't prove that there are no leprechauns, ghosts, bigfoots (bigfeet?), Loch Ness monsters, fairies, goblins, vampires, or most any other supernatural or paranormal claim. The inability to disprove it adds not one whit of support for it being true.

Quote:To have theist vs atheist debate is futile for me because the best you can ever hope to achieve is prove the God of the bible does not exist which will result in me turning to Deism.

I doubt that you are really as close-minded as that. That sounds like a combination of indoctrination and fear talking, not your intellect. I think that if you would let your guard down a bit and be willing to really consider the arguments and whether or not they really make sense and support the conclusion you would modify your beliefs.

Atheism isn't scary once you get there, it is actually pretty liberating. Yes, I am saying that I do want to change your beliefs... one of us! one of us! Big Grin I hate seeing intelligent people buying into nonsensical claims. The thing is, I don't want you to just believe because I think it's good, I want you to honestly evaluate the claims and come to a conclusion based on reasoning.

Quote:What will it take to prove to you that God exists?

Evidence that supports the claim and is not so ambiguous that "shit happens" isn't at least as likely the reason. I'm not sure what form that would take but surely a god would be able to convince me.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like unfogged's post
14-11-2015, 06:58 AM
RE: Why is it that creationist are trying to disprove evolution
Just a general question. I think there is a miscommunication regarding the difference between proof/evidence and belief/claim. Correct me if I am wrong but from my understanding proof is evidence but evidence is not always proof. Example. If a man is accused of murder because his fingerprints are on the gun that is only proof that he touched the gun but it does prove he fired the kill shot. However it is evidence supporting the claim that he is guilty. Same regarding belief/claim. A claim is always a belief but a belief is not always a claim. I always assumed that a belief was more (for lack of a better word) personal but a claim was taking a belief with supporting evidence to influence the beliefs of others. This is a honest question. Thank you.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: