Why is it that creationist are trying to disprove evolution
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14-12-2015, 04:23 AM
RE: Why is it that creationist are trying to disprove evolution
(14-12-2015 03:18 AM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  Since I wasted my time reading this entire thread, I'll waste some more time asking a question.

Mr. Jason, not that you care, but im not sold, as others seem to be, that your presence here is genuine. Now I'm not lumping you in with the likes of an Alla or Call of the Wild, but you've got similar dance moves.

Specifically to the point, reading through this thread I noticed that you continuously answered questions with Christian dogma. That's fine and dandy until you were directly addressed by Unfogged to the point that we here at TTA are not uneducated in WHAT you believe, but specifically asked WHY you believed it despite the overwhelming evidence suggesting and often times proving your beliefs to be false and illogical. This tough question, as all theists do, was evaded by yourself. And as Unfogged clearly stated, that is the answer you need to provide to an atheist if you are truly here to understand and communicate.

So again, assuming from what I've read you are capable of following logic and reason, but when it comes to the numerous illogical dogmatic beliefs of the Christian faith, why do you choose to abandon logic and reason? Don't tell me what the Bible says. Don't tell me what your pastor preaches. Tell me why you are comfortable leaving logic and reason at the door and accept these beliefs to be true?
Well...the main reason is personal one as a result of a tragedy in my life. Other reasons are basically that I can not believe that nothing created everything for no reason and that there is absolutely nothing after we die. Because I cannot accept that, I have to believe in a god.
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14-12-2015, 04:30 AM
RE: Why is it that creationist are trying to disprove evolution
(14-12-2015 04:23 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Well...the main reason is personal one as a result of a tragedy in my life. Other reasons are basically that I can not believe that nothing created everything for no reason and that there is absolutely nothing after we die. Because I cannot accept that, I have to believe in a god.

For the record, personal incredulity is a terrible reason to posit positive belief in anything.

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14-12-2015, 04:49 AM (This post was last modified: 14-12-2015 04:52 AM by jason_delisle.)
RE: Why is it that creationist are trying to disprove evolution
(14-12-2015 04:30 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(14-12-2015 04:23 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Well...the main reason is personal one as a result of a tragedy in my life. Other reasons are basically that I can not believe that nothing created everything for no reason and that there is absolutely nothing after we die. Because I cannot accept that, I have to believe in a god.

For the record, personal incredulity is a terrible reason to posit positive belief in anything.
I agree if the intent was to convince anyone here to believe what I believe. But it is perfectly reasonable to use personal reasons to explain why someone personally chooses to believe something.

Edit: also, is it not incredulous to be unable to accept the existence of a god? Even if it was Deist god?
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14-12-2015, 05:19 AM
RE: Why is it that creationist are trying to disprove evolution
(14-12-2015 04:49 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(14-12-2015 04:30 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  For the record, personal incredulity is a terrible reason to posit positive belief in anything.
I agree if the intent was to convince anyone here to believe what I believe. But it is perfectly reasonable to use personal reasons to explain why someone personally chooses to believe something.

Edit: also, is it not incredulous to be unable to accept the existence of a god? Even if it was Deist god?


Incredulity
- the state of being unwilling or unable to believe something.


What is it about that word, it's very definition, that would make you think that it is at all a reasonable means at attaining truth? Being unable or unwilling to imagine the world as being round wouldn't have made the world any more flat, the state of the universe doesn't give a fuck what any of us think or find beyond the pale; just look at the history of quantum mechanics.


I use an evidence based epistemology, because I care enough to try my best to find out what is factually accurate; and evidence is the best means we have yet devised for determining that. Feels and a priori assumptions however, have a long and sordid history of being the absolute worst way of not only getting to the truth of a matter, but also making it even harder to correct any mistakes you will inevitably make.


I don't deny the existence of a god or gods on the grounds of personal incredulity, I have rejected every definition or conceptualization put before me on the grounds of either being incomplete, unfalsifiable, or utterly lacking in sufficient evidence. God claims always have, and yet continue, to fail to meet their burden of proof.

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14-12-2015, 05:21 AM
RE: Why is it that creationist are trying to disprove evolution
(14-12-2015 04:49 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(14-12-2015 04:30 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  For the record, personal incredulity is a terrible reason to posit positive belief in anything.
I agree if the intent was to convince anyone here to believe what I believe. But it is perfectly reasonable to use personal reasons to explain why someone personally chooses to believe something.

No, it's not. You abandon reason out of fear.

Quote:Edit: also, is it not incredulous to be unable to accept the existence of a god? Even if it was Deist god?

What evidence? Seriously.

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14-12-2015, 05:30 AM
RE: Why is it that creationist are trying to disprove evolution
(14-12-2015 04:49 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(14-12-2015 04:30 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  For the record, personal incredulity is a terrible reason to posit positive belief in anything.

I agree if the intent was to convince anyone here to believe what I believe. But it is perfectly reasonable to use personal reasons to explain why someone personally chooses to believe something.

I fail to see how intent changes things; whether or not I wish to convince somebody that the moon is not made of cheese, simply saying 'I cannot believe it, therefore it must not be' is terrible reasoning for not embracing Cheesemoonism.

(14-12-2015 04:49 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Edit: also, is it not incredulous to be unable to accept the existence of a god? Even if it was Deist god?

That might be a point if anybody was arguing that we don't believe in a god simply because we cant, which would make it a statement of personal incredulity, but nobody is saying that.
In order for a stance to fall under PI it must be founded on the statement that the speaker simply cannot accept a given proposition (or its alternative) either because they simply can't, or it may seem to fantastical to believe so they wont.
If I for example said that I can't believe in a god because the idea of a magic man that made a universe and focused all his attention on humans that gets mad when you masturbate seems silly or merely unthinkable, than it is an argument from incredulity/lack of imagination.
However if I said all that and instead said that my reasons for disbelief are that the evidence presented to me thus far has been insufficient to warrant belief in the magical masturbator hater, it is not a matter of incredulity.

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14-12-2015, 05:38 AM
RE: Why is it that creationist are trying to disprove evolution
(14-12-2015 04:23 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  ... Other reasons are basically that I can not believe that nothing created everything for no reason and that there is absolutely nothing after we die. Because I cannot accept that, I have to believe in a god.

Upon what empirical evidence do you base your belief that there is "something" after we die? And can you define specifically what that something is?

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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14-12-2015, 06:57 AM
RE: Why is it that creationist are trying to disprove evolution
(14-12-2015 04:49 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  I agree if the intent was to convince anyone here to believe what I believe. But it is perfectly reasonable to use personal reasons to explain why someone personally chooses to believe something.

As others have posted, your intent is beside the point. You are talking to a group that, as a general rule, wants to understand reality as it is and not as we might like it to be. We try to base our decisions on what we understand to be true based on demonstrable evidence.

The phrase "personally chooses to believe" is frankly meaningless to me. It implies that reality is dependent on the observer. Either there is evidence for the conclusion, in which case you should be able to share that evidence, or there is none and your profession of belief is unwarranted.

I understand that you aren't looking to actively push your belief but you still profess that belief to people around you. Not only that, but you want to be a military chaplain which would put you into a position of authority over people in very vulnerable situations and your example is likely to be influential. From my perspective that means you are helping to promote believing based on little more than wishful thinking. That's a poor basis for making decisions and it is long past time that we should have abandoned magical thinking in favor of evidence-based reasoning. Even if you never actively promote your beliefs you are still passively promoting them and that may influence others.

I've asked a few times for you to explain why you believe the things you do. I'm hoping that one of two things will happen...either you will give me something I can evaluate to see that there may be reason to accept the claim or you will see that you don't have a sold basis for your belief and will at least investigate it further.

One last thought...you can hope that there is a god and an afterlife and you can even hold open the door that it is possible for all of it to be true without "choosing to believe" that it is. Living your life according to what many would call "Christian principles" doesn't require actual belief in a deity.

Quote:Edit: also, is it not incredulous to be unable to accept the existence of a god? Even if it was Deist god?

No, it is the opposite. The time to believe something is when there is evidence FOR that specific thing, not just when you don't happen to have an answer and something sounds sufficiently explanatory it if it were true.

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14-12-2015, 08:22 AM
RE: Why is it that creationist are trying to disprove evolution
The main reason why I choose to believe is something that I almost regret to say. Lest I am labeled as insane. But I will very hesitantly say that God spoke to me in a way that I could not deny. I know you all may think it is insane which is why it took so much prodding to get it out. I know it will have absolutely no influence on anyone reading this forum but it is the truth.

Btw....I have no history of mental or psychological illness nor was I under any influence of drugs.
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14-12-2015, 08:42 AM
RE: Why is it that creationist are trying to disprove evolution
(14-12-2015 08:22 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  The main reason why I choose to believe is something that I almost regret to say. Lest I am labeled as insane. But I will very hesitantly say that God spoke to me in a way that I could not deny.

You can't deny it because you didn't employ any critical thinking skills - just feelings.
So, I will deny that God spoke to you in any way since you lack the ability to think it through.

Quote:I know you all may think it is insane which is why it took so much prodding to get it out. I know it will have absolutely no influence on anyone reading this forum but it is the truth.

Btw....I have no history of mental or psychological illness nor was I under any influence of drugs.

Your emotional reactions do not create reality.

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