Why is necrophilia illegal?
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08-08-2015, 02:29 PM
RE: Why is necrophilia illegal?
(08-08-2015 02:24 PM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  On what objective basis is a persons family more qualified to make decisions for said person than anyone else?

If you're going to take it to that level, then I'll have to "objectively" agree with you.

The thing is that nothing is objective.....if you have to take it to that level to justify those kinds of actions, then you are not the kind of person I wish to engage with on any level, and abhor the thought that a sick fuck like you exists. Good day sir.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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08-08-2015, 02:37 PM
RE: Why is necrophilia illegal?
(08-08-2015 02:29 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(08-08-2015 02:24 PM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  On what objective basis is a persons family more qualified to make decisions for said person than anyone else?

If you're going to take it to that level, then I'll have to "objectively" agree with you.

The thing is that nothing is objective.....if you have to take it to that level to justify those kinds of actions, then you are not the kind of person I wish to engage with on any level, and abhor the thought that a sick fuck like you exists. Good day sir.

I was actually sort of strawmanning rocketsurgeon there, and have since changed the wording a bit. He didn't necessarily say the family of the deceased 'person' should have ownership over that 'person.'

It more readily reads, instead, that basically one should not manipulate matter that used to belong to a human for sexual gratification, on the basis that that former humans family might get offended. What I should be asking is on what basis do they have to be offended - No, that is utterly irrelevant. Rather, why should one withhold on doing something if the only basis is that it offends others? It needs more substance, such as the one I forwarded; "ownership", for it to mean anything.
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08-08-2015, 02:41 PM
RE: Why is necrophilia illegal?
For the same reason we have funerals: they're not for the deceased, they're for the families and friends who loved and respected that person. The fact that the dead body is no longer that person is irrelevant, since it remains (no pun intended) the avatar of their love of that person. Even if they had no family, I consider it disrespectful to living humans to defile a dead body because the act is contemptuous of the love that people do have for their families and friends. The act by which one would defile that dead body is to defile all, simple as that. We give reverence to the dead; it's part of what makes us human.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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08-08-2015, 02:47 PM
RE: Why is necrophilia illegal?
(08-08-2015 02:06 PM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  
(08-08-2015 01:48 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  There are some weird people in this world, when I was like 25 yo, I had a co-worker who got off on the thought of having sex with unconscious women, and he was like 22yo...how do you get that fucked at at 22yo? How do you EVER get that fucked up? My thought always was, if that is what it takes to get your motor running at 22, it is all down hill from there...what will it take to get you hard when you are 40? (don't answer that beware of gods).

He actually started dating the daughter of a master Chief Petty Officer, a cute asian girl, so one day she was like...what is your fantasy...and he said get naked and just lie there like you are asleep, don't move and don't make any noise....then he masturbated all over her and left.....think about that girl lying there, she feels him finish, then a second later hears the door close and his car drive away.....and then she actually called him back a week later, and he said, 'I thought you wouldn't call me again" and she replied....yeah...that was kinda weird, lets not do that again....

You THINK?

Facepalm

Two consenting adults. Whether you like it or not is irrelevant. No need to shame people for their fetish when it's not harming anyone.

Anyway, I ascribe no more personhood to a dead body than a lump of soil. That is to say I do not consider what most would call a "dead person" to be a person at all. I don't care if you fuck a mound of dirt, and I don't care if you fuck some mass that used to belong to a living organism - chances are the material making up the mound of dirt did to.

Dead or unconscious is not an implication of consent. Basic human decency would suggest fucking a corpse is distasteful. Basic human decency would suggest that the sexual violation of a fellow human being's dead loved one is depraved. When my children died the possibility of a pedophile necrophiliac sicko molesting them inside the morgue thankfully never entered my mind. However, I can assure you if I had entered the building and saw some sick fuck doing such a despicable act to my little girl I would have ripped him to pieces with my bare hands. I don't believe in the after life, but I do believe in basic human decency. Now, you can play the game of "define basic human decency"...sure, it is that thing which prevents you from fucking a corpse, get it?

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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08-08-2015, 03:01 PM
RE: Why is necrophilia illegal?
(08-08-2015 02:37 PM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  I was actually sort of strawmanning rocketsurgeon there, and have since changed the wording a bit. He didn't necessarily say the family of the deceased 'person' should have ownership over that 'person.'

It more readily reads, instead, that basically one should not manipulate matter that used to belong to a human for sexual gratification, on the basis that that former humans family might get offended. What I should be asking is on what basis do they have to be offended - No, that is utterly irrelevant. Rather, why should one withhold on doing something if the only basis is that it offends others? It needs more substance, such as the one I forwarded; "ownership", for it to mean anything.

I fail to see what "ownership" has to do with it. It's a matter of basic human decency. If someone can't see what's wrong with it, then I suppose I wouldn't be surprised to see that same person humping a mound of dirt and achieving satisfaction. It's just not what a mentally healthy person would do, especially in light of the reverence towards personhood we tend to bestow on people even after they are deceased. Yes, there is something wrong with it.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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08-08-2015, 03:03 PM
RE: Why is necrophilia illegal?
(08-08-2015 02:37 PM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  Rather, why should one withhold on doing something if the only basis is that it offends others? It needs more substance, such as the one I forwarded; "ownership", for it to mean anything.

Because we are empathetic animals. Acting empathetically benefits both you and the one shown empathy.
Because we get stuff if we treat others the way we would wish to be treated.
Because minimizing pain is good for the community as a whole.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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08-08-2015, 03:08 PM
RE: Why is necrophilia illegal?
(08-08-2015 02:41 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  For the same reason we have funerals: they're not for the deceased, they're for the families and friends who loved and respected that person. The fact that the dead body is no longer that person is irrelevant, since it remains (no pun intended) the avatar of their love of that person. Even if they had no family, I consider it disrespectful to living humans to defile a dead body because the act is contemptuous of the love that people do have for their families and friends. The act by which one would defile that dead body is to defile all, simple as that. We give reverence to the dead; it's part of what makes us human.

(08-08-2015 02:41 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  For the same reason we have funerals: they're not for the deceased, they're for the families and friends who loved and respected that person. The fact that the dead body is no longer that person is irrelevant, since it remains (no pun intended) the avatar of their love of that person. Even if they had no family, I consider it disrespectful to living humans to defile a dead body because the act is contemptuous of the love that people do have for their families and friends. The act by which one would defile that dead body is to defile all, simple as that. We give reverence to the dead; it's part of what makes us human.

"The fact that the dead body is no longer that person is irrelevant, since it remains (no pun intended) the avatar of their love of that person"

This would be such an inconsistent, even false, premise. What if the persons family hated the person, and wished malicious intent upon them? Under that scenario, using your reasoning, it may be okay to use the bodies matter for sexual purposes, or even other, perhaps worse things? How about if the family not only hated the person in life, but asked you to commit atrocities to the body because of it? I need only extend the thought from 'family' to literally 'everyone that knew the person' if you decide to use, "Even if they had no family, I consider it disrespectful to living humans to defile a dead body because the act is contemptuous of the love that people do have for their families and friends."

And, under the scenario that this sentiment seemingly works; that in life, they were indeed loved, it still falls short as a premise because it needs to be rightly argued that someones offense regarding the matters of a deceased person takes precedence over someones desire to use the deceased persons body for sexual gratification. Why should I, or anyone, withhold on something something when the only basis is that it offends others?

(08-08-2015 02:47 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Dead or unconscious is not an implication of consent. Basic human decency would suggest fucking a corpse is distasteful. Basic human decency would suggest that the sexual violation of a fellow human being's dead loved one is depraved. When my children died the possibility of a pedophile necrophiliac sicko molesting them inside the morgue thankfully never entered my mind. However, I can assure you if I had entered the building and saw some sick fuck doing such a despicable act to my little girl I would have ripped him to pieces with my bare hands. I don't believe in the after life, but I do believe in basic human decency. Now, you can play the game of "define basic human decency"...sure, it is that thing which prevents you from fucking a corpse, get it?

You are emotionally compromised. Your use of "basic human decency" here is just the replacement for "common sense" rhetoric that a common cliche-thinking fallacy suffers from. Imagine if I went on an emotional tirade about christianity, or any religion, and my only support for it all was "Well it's just damn common sense to see that christianity/islam/whatever" is true!." This is what you are doing, but I highly doubt you will admit it.
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08-08-2015, 03:15 PM
RE: Why is necrophilia illegal?
(08-08-2015 03:03 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Because we get stuff if we treat others the way we would wish to be treated.
Because minimizing pain is good for the community as a whole.

Certainly those are good reasons to try not to offend someone. You didn't quite understand the implications of what I was actually saying, though. Those reasons only work when one is not giving something up, or withholding on something, in order to appease the offended. When its your quality of living versus theirs, on what basis does offense take precedence?

Why should someones illogical offense to fucking unconscious matter take precedence over someones desire to achieve sexual gratification?

Hint: it shouldn't.
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08-08-2015, 03:17 PM
RE: Why is necrophilia illegal?
Oh, we have some special snowflakes around here.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat

Are my Chakras on straight?
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08-08-2015, 03:17 PM
RE: Why is necrophilia illegal?
(08-08-2015 03:08 PM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  
(08-08-2015 02:41 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  For the same reason we have funerals: they're not for the deceased, they're for the families and friends who loved and respected that person. The fact that the dead body is no longer that person is irrelevant, since it remains (no pun intended) the avatar of their love of that person. Even if they had no family, I consider it disrespectful to living humans to defile a dead body because the act is contemptuous of the love that people do have for their families and friends. The act by which one would defile that dead body is to defile all, simple as that. We give reverence to the dead; it's part of what makes us human.

(08-08-2015 02:41 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  For the same reason we have funerals: they're not for the deceased, they're for the families and friends who loved and respected that person. The fact that the dead body is no longer that person is irrelevant, since it remains (no pun intended) the avatar of their love of that person. Even if they had no family, I consider it disrespectful to living humans to defile a dead body because the act is contemptuous of the love that people do have for their families and friends. The act by which one would defile that dead body is to defile all, simple as that. We give reverence to the dead; it's part of what makes us human.

"The fact that the dead body is no longer that person is irrelevant, since it remains (no pun intended) the avatar of their love of that person"

This would be such an inconsistent, even false, premise. What if the persons family hated the person, and wished malicious intent upon them? Under that scenario, using your reasoning, it may be okay to use the bodies matter for sexual purposes, or even other, perhaps worse things? How about if the family not only hated the person in life, but asked you to commit atrocities to the body because of it? I need only extend the thought from 'family' to literally 'everyone that knew the person' if you decide to use, "Even if they had no family, I consider it disrespectful to living humans to defile a dead body because the act is contemptuous of the love that people do have for their families and friends."

And, under the scenario that this sentiment seemingly works; that in life, they were indeed loved, it still falls short as a premise because it needs to be rightly argued that someones offense regarding the matters of a deceased person takes precedence over someones desire to use the deceased persons body for sexual gratification. Why should I, or anyone, withhold on something something when the only basis is that it offends others?

(08-08-2015 02:47 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Dead or unconscious is not an implication of consent. Basic human decency would suggest fucking a corpse is distasteful. Basic human decency would suggest that the sexual violation of a fellow human being's dead loved one is depraved. When my children died the possibility of a pedophile necrophiliac sicko molesting them inside the morgue thankfully never entered my mind. However, I can assure you if I had entered the building and saw some sick fuck doing such a despicable act to my little girl I would have ripped him to pieces with my bare hands. I don't believe in the after life, but I do believe in basic human decency. Now, you can play the game of "define basic human decency"...sure, it is that thing which prevents you from fucking a corpse, get it?

You are emotionally compromised. Your use of "basic human decency" here is just the replacement for "common sense" rhetoric that a common cliche-thinking fallacy suffers from. Imagine if I went on an emotional tirade about christianity, or any religion, and my only support for it all was "Well it's just damn common sense to see that christianity/islam/whatever" is true!." This is what you are doing, but I highly doubt you will admit it.

Nope apples and oranges. Ones purported belief in delusion, and the infantile comprehension level required to understand that fucking a corpse is wrong is two distinct different things. Common sense sadly isn't common.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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