Why is "no belief" so hard to grasp?
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09-06-2013, 09:45 AM
RE: Why is "no belief" so hard to grasp?
(09-06-2013 09:21 AM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  As part of life as primates, humans are driven to recognize and develop patterns to create a frame work to understand things from. This is difficult to do with complicated issues like how did the universe begin or what is the purpose of life, so belief acts as a sort of surrogate to concrete concepts to establish patterns from.

As such, a religious person would be confused by a rational person as the rational person would not appear to have this anchoring in life, which the religious see as a required part of human psychology. 'You have to believe in something' would be a logical assumption on their part.

This very true, but we do have the word "random" and it's not a new word by any means.

A lot of people cannot wrap their head around the word "random", hence gambling addictions and gods.

This isn't going to fix itself overnight. Confused

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09-06-2013, 09:49 AM
RE: Why is "no belief" so hard to grasp?
I don't know. I guess I get it, especially now that I'm on the other side of the fence. But when I was on the other, other side, Huh I still completely understood the how and why behind atheism.

Maybe that makes it hard for me to see why it's so hard for believers to understand our position.

Goddamned rational thinking. Dodgy

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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09-06-2013, 02:06 PM
RE: Why is "no belief" so hard to grasp?
If you don't believe in an afterlife then this Calvin & Hobbes strip captures the insignificance of it all...and is funny to boot!

[attachment=1416]

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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10-06-2013, 02:46 AM
RE: Why is "no belief" so hard to grasp?
(09-06-2013 09:00 AM)Dom Wrote:  Over and over and over again I encounter people who cannot wrap their head around someone not having "beliefs".

They keep looking to find something atheists believe in.

I wonder if there is something about human nature that makes people want to believe stuff?

Or is the recognition that not believing is even possible a threat to their entire world view?

It just seems odd that people constantly trip over that simplest of points when considering what atheism is.
I tell them I believe in logic, reason and the scientific method. End of story.

Humans arrived on Earth on 22 October 4004 B.C. A few of us are still trying to repair the ship.
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10-06-2013, 03:30 AM
RE: Why is "no belief" so hard to grasp?
(09-06-2013 09:00 AM)Dom Wrote:  Over and over and over again I encounter people who cannot wrap their head around someone not having "beliefs".

They keep looking to find something atheists believe in.

I wonder if there is something about human nature that makes people want to believe stuff?

Or is the recognition that not believing is even possible a threat to their entire world view?

It just seems odd that people constantly trip over that simplest of points when considering what atheism is.

Depends;
Some are probably unable to comprehend that others do not believe in god(s), and do not have a religious worldview.
Others might be misinformed (though that does not excuse being deliberately obtuse).

In other cases, I think it should be seen in the same context as the claim that "Darwinism" or Atheism are really just religions.
It´s a poor argument designed to accuse the "Evolutionists" and Atheists of being biased and disingenuous - since they do not admit that they deep down are as religious as the creationists and Christians.
The point of this argument is usually to conclude something along the lines of: "You are religious, I am religious; let´s call it a wash", or "I have belief, You have belief; let´s call it a wash".

It works a bit the same way as the "I can´t prove God, You can´t disprove God" argument.
Both are designed to "call it even" and dismantle the high ground that proponents of proper science usually have in discussions on the existence of god(s), evolution, creationism, ect.
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10-06-2013, 06:51 AM
RE: Why is "no belief" so hard to grasp?
Well, I am not going to say I "believe" in science, because I believe nothing.

To me, the word "believe" was central to my deconversion, it clearly implies that one does not know but chooses to consider something to be true.

For me, there is no such thing. Either I know it's a fact, or I don't.

If I don't know it's a fact, and I have no evidence to the contrary, then it's simply a possibility.

I personally have no use at all for the word "believe".

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10-06-2013, 07:15 AM
RE: Why is "no belief" so hard to grasp?
(10-06-2013 06:51 AM)Dom Wrote:  Well, I am not going to say I "believe" in science, because I believe nothing.

To me, the word "believe" was central to my deconversion, it clearly implies that one does not know but chooses to consider something to be true.

For me, there is no such thing. Either I know it's a fact, or I don't.

If I don't know it's a fact, and I have no evidence to the contrary, then it's simply a possibility.

I personally have no use at all for the word "believe".

I believe you. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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10-06-2013, 08:16 AM
RE: Why is "no belief" so hard to grasp?
(10-06-2013 07:15 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(10-06-2013 06:51 AM)Dom Wrote:  Well, I am not going to say I "believe" in science, because I believe nothing.

To me, the word "believe" was central to my deconversion, it clearly implies that one does not know but chooses to consider something to be true.

For me, there is no such thing. Either I know it's a fact, or I don't.

If I don't know it's a fact, and I have no evidence to the contrary, then it's simply a possibility.

I personally have no use at all for the word "believe".

I believe you. Drinking Beverage

Yes, but do you believe IN me?

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10-06-2013, 08:44 AM
RE: Why is "no belief" so hard to grasp?
"No belief" is so hard to grasp because there is no such thing as "no belief". Every action we take or thought we think or word we say is based upon our belief in something. For instance, if I decide to sit down in a chair I do so based upon my belief that the chair is trustworthy and will hold me up. I don't sit down in the chair if I know it will fall apart on me. Having a belief doesn't mean that I always have to consciously think about it before I choose to act on it. I don't always think about the chair holding me up before I sit down in it. But that doesn't mean that my belief in the chair holding me up doesn't exist. So, I challenge you to give me an example where "belief" is absent. Yes, like it or not, you atheists out there have a belief. I believe it's a wrong belief, but it's a belief nonetheless. The belief is you believe that God doesn't exist. It's not a "non-belief". It's a definite belief system and one that is very dangerous to your health, but it's still a belief. Your buddy Seth was asked the question whether Atheism was a religion. He answered with: "Sure. And not smoking cigarettes is a habit." His kind of logic is similar to yours. He believes that not believing in something means he has a non-belief or a non-religion. His logic as well as yours has a major flaw in it. Has he ever heard of a good habit? Isn't not smoking cigarettes a good habit? In the same way, isn't not believing in God still believing in something. It sure is and to say otherwise goes against the very nature of logic that you and Seth say you have. Anyway, let me know what you think. Thanks, tb
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10-06-2013, 08:52 AM
RE: Why is "no belief" so hard to grasp?
(10-06-2013 08:16 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(10-06-2013 07:15 AM)Chas Wrote:  I believe you. Drinking Beverage

Yes, but do you believe IN me?

Yes, absolutely. You are a princess in the pantheon of TTA Godesses. Worship Slaves

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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