Why is "no belief" so hard to grasp?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
12-06-2013, 12:37 PM
RE: Why is "no belief" so hard to grasp?
(12-06-2013 09:34 AM)tblanch777 Wrote:  
(12-06-2013 09:26 AM)Dom Wrote:  Same reason as you: the beautiful and very efficient way nature works. This can only have developed over thousands and thousands of years.

Plus, of course, the nastiness and inconsistency of religions and descriptions of "god".
The ordered universe that we see could obviously not have been birthed out of chaos. Random chance cannot produce order. A grand designer, God, however, can produce great things. This logic is irrefutable. Yes, religions have messed things up, but a relationship with God is different. While religion is man-made, a relationship with God is God made. God desires to have a relationship with you not based upon religion but based upon a love for you. Why don't you give him a chance and open up to him. tb

That is nonsense.

All life is adaptable, and determined to thrive and procreate. Over time, all life (except for us meddling humans) has evolved to harmonize and a symbiotic co-existence of all living things has come to be. That is what you call ordered, it is the result of life evolving into many different forms over time, some of them faulty and extinct, some of them highly adapted to their specific environment. The current result is a finely tuned combination of many life forms that have proven to be able to survive in their environment. The only thing wrong with nature is human beings, who destroy and poison this delicate balance. But that, too, is evolution.

Several hundred years from now, not too long from now, you will likely see a lot of species decimated and some new forms of life will have come along. Humans, even though they have become the catalyst of many of these changes, are also still subject to the laws of nature, and as such they may well destroy themselves. Poisoned food supplies creating diseases, new virus strains that evolve due to the changed challenges they face and many other factors come into play here. Last not least human nature itself, the intolerance of those different from you, the quest for domination, and various other destructive instincts may be the final downfall of humankind. And if humans were out of the picture, the world will go on and some other species will become dominant, or maybe a segment of humans will evolve that avoids the downfalls we witness today.

The occurrence of a new trait is random, but it's survival is determined by the environment, which consists of all other species and yes, the earth itself and the universe.

As far as your god goes, I can do fine without some wrathful, nasty creature who causes misery all over the world and apparently enjoys human suffering. Thank goodness there is no sign of this creature actually existing.

[Image: dobie.png]

Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Dom's post
12-06-2013, 03:16 PM
RE: Why is "no belief" so hard to grasp?
(12-06-2013 09:43 AM)tblanch777 Wrote:  
(12-06-2013 09:38 AM)cjlr Wrote:  Subjective. And wrong.


False.


This must be some new meaning of the word irrefutable that I was previously unaware of.

A God is necessarily ordered. Do you agree?

Then how was that order produced?
No one or thing produced God. God is the beginning, middle, and end. He is self-sufficient and doesn't need us, but decided out of love to make us to be. Anything less than that would cease to be God. God loved us that much to create us and to create all the beauty and order around us. Just because there is evil and lack of love evidenced around us does nothing to disprove God's goodness. However, it goes to show you that man can sin and cause harm. We weren't created as robots or puppets and have free will to choose good or evil. tb

Why would a god capable of being omniscient and omnipotent, have such petty human emotions? Like rage and jealousy and why would it care a wit if anyone worshipped it? Like a petty king or queen insisting no one's head be higher than his or her own. All the bowing, kneeling, curtsying to demonstrate some false reverence or humility toward their greatness?

Why would such a god require people to worship it? The whole nonsense of Adam and Eve is about as silly as joseph smith looking into his magic hat to translate hieroglyphs found in his backyard in north America?

God loved us so he sent his son to die for us? WJhat the fuck for? Why the threat of eternal damnation if we don't believe in him? Narcissism seems rather apt when describing god. All of them it would seem.

Shoo fly! You're a poor champion for your "belief" since that's really all you have is your belief and faith it's all true.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Momsurroundedbyboys's post
12-06-2013, 05:52 PM
RE: Why is "no belief" so hard to grasp?
(12-06-2013 09:29 AM)tblanch777 Wrote:  
(12-06-2013 09:15 AM)Chas Wrote:  You either are unaware of, or don't understand, the evidence.

Only creationists use the terms 'micro-evolution' and 'macro-evolution'. There is just evolution.
You're trying to play around with semantics here. The only thing people are arguing about is change from one species to another. No one is arguing about changes within species. So, when people say that there is no evidence to back up evolution they are talking about changes from one species to another. Why do you go on believing this theory without any good evidence? What's your evidence that makes you believe in evolution, anyway? tb

The only one around here "playing" with semantics is you.

It is extremely important for you to educate yourself about topics you discuss, not just here, but wherever you go. When you casually dismiss 150 years of a verified, confirmed and proven theory you securely place yourself in the midst of an ever shrinking group of willfull deniers. I don't know if you simply haven't had the opportunity for a college education.

You ask silly questions and expect us here to educate you. What you need are university courses in all scientific disciplines such as biology, geology, cosmology, paleontology to name a few. A solid grasp of history would help you greatly as well.

I hope this helps steer you towards a meaningful and valuable search for answers based in reality.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Full Circle's post
12-06-2013, 06:27 PM
RE: Why is "no belief" so hard to grasp?
(12-06-2013 09:29 AM)tblanch777 Wrote:  
(12-06-2013 09:15 AM)Chas Wrote:  You either are unaware of, or don't understand, the evidence.

Only creationists use the terms 'micro-evolution' and 'macro-evolution'. There is just evolution.
You're trying to play around with semantics here. The only thing people are arguing about is change from one species to another. No one is arguing about changes within species. So, when people say that there is no evidence to back up evolution they are talking about changes from one species to another. Why do you go on believing this theory without any good evidence? What's your evidence that makes you believe in evolution, anyway? tb

You need to learn some facts instead of the drivel you are spewing.

Many small changes add up to large ones. One species changes and becomes something new over many, many generations. Is that so difficult to understand?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Chas's post
12-06-2013, 06:38 PM
RE: Why is "no belief" so hard to grasp?
(12-06-2013 06:27 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(12-06-2013 09:29 AM)tblanch777 Wrote:  You're trying to play around with semantics here. The only thing people are arguing about is change from one species to another. No one is arguing about changes within species. So, when people say that there is no evidence to back up evolution they are talking about changes from one species to another. Why do you go on believing this theory without any good evidence? What's your evidence that makes you believe in evolution, anyway? tb

You need to learn some facts instead of the drivel you are spewing.

Many small changes add up to large ones. One species changes and becomes something new over many, many generations. Is that so difficult to understand?

And they think evolution shouldn't be taught in schools. Clearly it's not being taught and explained thoroughly enough.

But that's what happens when fundy religious people become school administrators.
Drinking Beverage


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Momsurroundedbyboys's post
12-06-2013, 07:11 PM (This post was last modified: 12-06-2013 07:30 PM by JAH.)
RE: Why is "no belief" so hard to grasp?
What does evolution have to do with lack of belief. Is there some notion that understanding evolution occurred means there is not a god. I am one of the perverse people that think evolution is not inconsistent with a god. Do I think a god exists, no I know no god exists but that is immaterial. If theists chose to believe the hand of an imaginary sky thingy guided evolution let them. If the argument is that the imaginary sky thingy negates the science behind evolution than they are really searching for arguments.

What again does dismissing the imaginary sky thingy have to do with evolution.

Whatever their name thinks that somehow evolution negates the imaginary sky thingy. I will honestly say I do not think that is correct. I will tell you if you think ignoring evolution allows the imaginary sky thingy to exist you are pissing into a hurricane.

Why is lack of "belief" in god so hard to understand is the question. I suppose that whatever their name realized they were getting no traction with the continued repetition of the you have a "belief" because of something or another and decided to take a different track.

While not recanting any of the above rereading some it appears that whatever their name more claims that life could not come into existence without an imaginary sky thingy. Well whatever your name "shit happens".

Well I reread some more, yes whatever their name is indeed pissing into a hurricane. Hopefully that act will warm him up a little.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes JAH's post
13-06-2013, 06:51 PM (This post was last modified: 13-06-2013 06:54 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Why is "no belief" so hard to grasp?
(12-06-2013 09:38 AM)tblanch777 Wrote:  The harder you try to make the claim that you don't have a belief, the more obvious it is that you do.

Belief is bullshit. I don't believe in belief. ... Well, except for Dempster-Shafer, I can go along with that definition. Tongue

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes GirlyMan's post
13-06-2013, 06:53 PM
RE: Why is "no belief" so hard to grasp?
(12-06-2013 09:01 AM)tblanch777 Wrote:  
(12-06-2013 08:31 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  No he doesn't have to add the word "blind". If you have evidence then it is no longer faith. Maybe you can answer this for me, why do theists like you insist on giving words new meaning?

Definition of FAITH
b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof

Frusty

You are just another in the long line of theists who come here and think that by redefining words you can make your case. It is a blatant distortion of semantics and it only weakens your argument. Let's agree to conform to actual definitions of words so a meaningful discussion can take place. If you keep insisting on language manipulation then no one will ever take you seriously.

PS Adding a descriptive adjective does NOT change the meaning of the word being described; paralyzing fear, unbounded love etc. The words paralyzing and unbounded and blind DO NOT give the noun a NEW meaning.

Faith and blind faith are two different things just like belief and blind belief. If I jump off of a tall building expecting to land safely on the ground, I'm exercising blind faith. If I examine everything before I jump and decide to not jump based upon the laws of gravity, then I'm exercising my faith or belief in gravity. My faith or belief or trust in something can either lead me to take a certain action or keep me from taking the action all together. If a person calls himself an atheist, and says he's an atheist just because, then he is exercising blind faith, belief, or trust. If he says I'm an atheist because I've examined the evidence and believe it points me to the fact of "no God", then he is exercising faith, belief, or trust. For an atheist to try and remain neutral in this is just not a logical option. If an atheist wants to remain neutral, he better start calling himself an agnostic. By the way, an atheist is under the same scrutiny as a theist, and has to succumb to the same burden of proof. So, if you want to start playing around with semantics you better be ready to talk about the difference between an atheist and an agnostic. Thanks, tb

Apparently you are insisting on being obtuse, insincere and disengenous; because the only other explanation for your word-salad is a near total unfamiliarity with the meaning of words in the English language and the inability to understand definitions.

No need to say thanks, it comes off as insincere anyway.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
13-06-2013, 06:57 PM
RE: Why is "no belief" so hard to grasp?
(13-06-2013 06:51 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(12-06-2013 09:38 AM)tblanch777 Wrote:  The harder you try to make the claim that you don't have a belief, the more obvious it is that you do.

Belief is bullshit. I don't believe in belief.

I don't believe that you don't believe in belief Girly. That would make you a gnostic a-believer wouldn't it? Consider

The Dempster-Shafer theory you hyperlinked hurt my head to read.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Full Circle's post
13-06-2013, 07:13 PM
RE: Why is "no belief" so hard to grasp?
(13-06-2013 06:57 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(13-06-2013 06:51 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Belief is bullshit. I don't believe in belief.

I don't believe that you don't believe in belief Girly.

I don't believe that you don't believe that I don't believe in belief. Tongue

(13-06-2013 06:57 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  The Dempster-Shafer theory you hyperlinked hurt my head to read.

It grounds the term "belief" much like classical logic grounds the term "truth". In my opinion these terms are thrown around far too casually. I find the casual use of them groundless.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: