Why is "no belief" so hard to grasp?
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13-06-2013, 07:18 PM
RE: Why is "no belief" so hard to grasp?
I have total faith that tbla7 isn't going to be the last theist that shows up to try to force conversions.

I believe I have heard the same tired old song before...I think it's called, "You Must Believe What I Believe".

I'm not anti-social. I'm pro-solitude. Sleepy
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13-06-2013, 07:22 PM
RE: Why is "no belief" so hard to grasp?
(13-06-2013 07:13 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(13-06-2013 06:57 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  I don't believe that you don't believe in belief Girly.

I don't believe that you don't believe that I don't believe in belief. Tongue

(13-06-2013 06:57 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  The Dempster-Shafer theory you hyperlinked hurt my head to read.

It grounds the term "belief" much like classical logic grounds the term "truth". In my opinion these terms are thrown around far too casually. I find the casual use of them groundless.

OK, I believe I'll give it another try but I don't believe it'll help. No

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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13-06-2013, 07:53 PM
RE: Why is "no belief" so hard to grasp?
(13-06-2013 07:18 PM)Anjele Wrote:  I have total faith that tbla7 isn't going to be the last theist that shows up to try to force conversions.
I believe that your statement is incorrect. You don't have faith that the wacky theists try to convert, but it is truly based upon evidence. I have a belief that you don't rely on faith.
(13-06-2013 07:18 PM)Anjele Wrote:  I believe I have heard the same tired old song before...I think it's called, "You Must Believe What I Believe".
I believe that we have all heard it before. Drinking Beverage
I believe that every time they come here, momsurroundedbyboys will offer her catch phrase (yes, I'm declaring it a catch phrase because it makes me giggle every time), "shoo fly."

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14-06-2013, 12:34 AM
RE: Why is "no belief" so hard to grasp?
(13-06-2013 07:18 PM)Anjele Wrote:  "You Must Believe What I Believe".

Or the WORLD will END and everyone will DROWN IN FIRE...

I mean it's never a case of "nothing much will happen" or "moderately bad consequences will ensue"... it's always *everything* will go so utterly to shit that it will not be fixable and it'll all be *your guys'* fault. ... even though every generation seems to predict that the world will end in that generation... and the world has resolutely failed to end each time...

Why are Christees always so bloody melodramatic ?

Oh fuck. Entire post totally off topic. Oh well Dodgy I'm posting it anyway. Muhahahahaha. Ha.

Weeping
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14-06-2013, 07:43 AM
RE: Why is "no belief" so hard to grasp?
(14-06-2013 12:34 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(13-06-2013 07:18 PM)Anjele Wrote:  "You Must Believe What I Believe".

Or the WORLD will END and everyone will DROWN IN FIRE...

I mean it's never a case of "nothing much will happen" or "moderately bad consequences will ensue"... it's always *everything* will go so utterly to shit that it will not be fixable and it'll all be *your guys'* fault. ... even though every generation seems to predict that the world will end in that generation... and the world has resolutely failed to end each time...

Why are Christees always so bloody melodramatic ?

Oh fuck. Entire post totally off topic. Oh well Dodgy I'm posting it anyway. Muhahahahaha. Ha.

Weeping

Because it makes for better storytelling. The Atheist version has no punchline, compared to the rapture and the fire & brimstone story ours is boring.

I bet if ours had more dragons in it it would be more believeable to the Christees! Oh, and zombies! More zombies. Big Grin Christees love zombies! [Image: zombiechase.gif]

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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14-06-2013, 08:06 AM
RE: Why is "no belief" so hard to grasp?
(10-06-2013 08:44 AM)tblanch777 Wrote:  "No belief" is so hard to grasp because there is no such thing as "no belief". Every action we take or thought we think or word we say is based upon our belief in something. For instance, if I decide to sit down in a chair I do so based upon my belief that the chair is trustworthy and will hold me up. I don't sit down in the chair if I know it will fall apart on me. Having a belief doesn't mean that I always have to consciously think about it before I choose to act on it. I don't always think about the chair holding me up before I sit down in it. But that doesn't mean that my belief in the chair holding me up doesn't exist. So, I challenge you to give me an example where "belief" is absent. Yes, like it or not, you atheists out there have a belief. I believe it's a wrong belief, but it's a belief nonetheless. The belief is you believe that God doesn't exist. It's not a "non-belief". It's a definite belief system and one that is very dangerous to your health, but it's still a belief. Your buddy Seth was asked the question whether Atheism was a religion. He answered with: "Sure. And not smoking cigarettes is a habit." His kind of logic is similar to yours. He believes that not believing in something means he has a non-belief or a non-religion. His logic as well as yours has a major flaw in it. Has he ever heard of a good habit? Isn't not smoking cigarettes a good habit? In the same way, isn't not believing in God still believing in something. It sure is and to say otherwise goes against the very nature of logic that you and Seth say you have. Anyway, let me know what you think. Thanks, tb
The main problem here is the word 'belief' which has quite a few religious overtones. The example you give is in its domain indeed a belief. In scientific term we could use the word hypothesis. My hypothesis is that the chair will carry my weight, and I can turn this hypothesis in to fact when I indeed test it. I could then generalise the concept and create a theory from my hypothesis. On good sound reasoning I can make a deduction that another chair with similar structural integrity indeed can carry my weight. And I can; a) predict this, b) test it.

This 'belief' can be extended in our daily life's. We make short assumptions based on accumulated experiences and calls it beliefs. If reality proofs you wrong the sensible guys and girls re-examines his or her 'beliefs' and change them accordingly. I.e. adapt the theory modelling their behaviour.

This has nothing to do with a belief system built on authority (i.e. not backed up by available evidence). Also known as religious beliefs...
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14-06-2013, 08:13 AM
RE: Why is "no belief" so hard to grasp?
I still say that I assume the chair will hold me, and not believe it. I also assume that my dog will want to go outside in a few minutes.

Believe is too strong a word, if it turns out that the dog will still be asleep in a few minutes, my belief will not be shattered. It was just a wrong assumption.

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Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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14-06-2013, 09:33 AM
RE: Why is "no belief" so hard to grasp?
@tblanch777:

Where to start . . .

tblanch777 Wrote:God loved us that much to create us and to create all the beauty and order around us. Just because there is evil and lack of love evidenced around us does nothing to disprove God's goodness.

Isaiah 45:7 [KJV] "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

Quote:No one's arguing that there aren't changes within species. Many people call this "micro-Evolution", but it's basically just changes and variations within a species. We all can observe changes within human beings. No two people are alike. This does nothing to prove macro-Evolution. When people argue about evolution they are generally talking about this, macro-Evolution. Basically, this is talking about changes between species. In other words, a certain species changing over time to become another species all together. That's where the evidence breaks down. There is no good evidence, nor has there ever been, to show a change from one species to another. That's where the argument of evolution takes place generally.

You're spreading misinformation. Please read a book on evolution by a real scientist. Richard Dawkins's The Greatest Show on Earth is a good place to start. Or at the very least, read and try to understand the lengthy Wikipedia article on Objections to evolution, in particular the section on "Lack of observation," which nicely debunks the "macro-evolution, micro-evolution" crap creationists are so fond of.

Quote:Jesus own disciples under the threat of death believing in Jesus is great proof for me.

So by the same token, 19 young men committing suicide by flying planes into buildings because they thought God wanted them to and that they'd be rewarded in paradise is "great proof" for you that there is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his prophet?

Quote:Jesus wants to become a part of your life to give you so much more meaning and fulfillment than you could ever have on your own.

Do you really have no understanding of what an arrogant statement that is? You come here without knowing a single person on the forum, yet you preach to us that our lives would be so much better if we only became Christians. Do you know how many people here have written movingly about how their lives became better, with "much more meaning and fulfillment," when they LEFT Christianity?

What evidence do you have that Gandhi, or Einstein, or Carl Sagan would have led more meaningful and fulfilled lives had they believed in Jesus?

If your life improved when you found Jesus, fine. Whatever floats your boat. But be honest enough to admit that others have claimed the same thing about becoming Muslims, or Jews, or Hindus . . . or atheists.

The sense one gets from your posts is that you're a parrot. You've memorized your script and are regurgitating it without doing any thinking of your own. You and your ilk contribute nothing to the discussion. Go away.

Religious disputes are like arguments in a madhouse over which inmate really is Napoleon.
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14-06-2013, 10:41 AM
RE: Why is "no belief" so hard to grasp?
Guys?

I don't think he's coming back...
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14-06-2013, 10:49 AM
RE: Why is "no belief" so hard to grasp?
(14-06-2013 10:41 AM)cjlr Wrote:  Guys?

I don't think he's coming back...

... He'll be back, if past nitwits are any indication. Still, might as well enjoy dancing on his grave a while longer. So romantic dontcherknow ?
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