Why is the Christian God good?
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03-07-2017, 06:55 PM
RE: Why is the Christian God good?
(30-06-2017 11:40 PM)Robvalue Wrote:  A lot of religious people think this life is a test, which throws a spanner in the works.
Yes, they say that this life is a test but they have no idea why.
I would say that this life is an opportunity to prepare yourself to become like God.

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03-07-2017, 07:02 PM
RE: Why is the Christian God good?
Commonsensei Wrote:A little context: Descendants of Nephis (Europeans (beautiful white people)) had the right to kill the Lamanites (Native Americans(Evil dark-skinned)
You say this, not the BOM.

Commonsensei Wrote:Most with him sending people to hell for not being baptisd, questioning church leaders, or disbelieving.
what is hell?

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03-07-2017, 07:19 PM
RE: Why is the Christian God good?
Reltzik Wrote:.... someone explain to me why an omniscient god would choose to inflict suffering upon us as a test, when being omniscient that god would already know the outcome of the test ahead of time?
Sure, I will explain. So, you may also KNOW, not from His words but from your own experience.
I assume that you would always prefer TO KNOW instead of BLINDLY BELIEVING God's words about outcome.

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03-07-2017, 07:30 PM
RE: Why is the Christian God good?
Plan 9 from OS Wrote:If God is omnipotent, then why even create anything? Why not just do simulations in your mind? That should be sufficient since you would know exactly how anything would play out without having to create people who will be destined for eternal damnation at birth.
Because it is fun. I love create things especially on my land. I love to create them in reality better than I like to create them in my head. Even if I have an idea about the outcome.
But many people have no idea what God means when He says that He is all knowing.

P.S. there is no such thing as eternal damnation at birth.

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03-07-2017, 08:38 PM
RE: Why is the Christian God good?
(03-07-2017 07:30 PM)Alla Wrote:  
Plan 9 from OS Wrote:If God is omnipotent, then why even create anything? Why not just do simulations in your mind? That should be sufficient since you would know exactly how anything would play out without having to create people who will be destined for eternal damnation at birth.
Because it is fun. I love create things especially on my land. I love to create them in reality better than I like to create them in my head. Even if I have an idea about the outcome.
But many people have no idea what God means when He says that He is all knowing.

> Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” (Matthew 19:26)

> Seems pretty straightforward to me. So, God created imperfect people, knowing that some of them would be damned because they behaved exactly the way he designed them to behave. And he saw that as fun? Dodgy
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03-07-2017, 09:17 PM
RE: Why is the Christian God good?
Gwaithmir Wrote:So, God created imperfect people,

According to the Gospel of Christ God created perfect man and perfect woman on this Earth and He let them to choose by themselves to remain being perfect.
If they chose to remain being perfect He wouldn't force them to become imperfect. Adam and Eve would stay that way forever, they would never had any children and they would never become like Gods meaning they would never had an eternal progression.
But Adam and Eve chose to become imperfect(fallen state). They made good choice.

Gwaithmir Wrote:knowing that some of them would be damned because they behaved exactly the way he designed them to behave
Yes, but we chose to be born here. Once we choose to be born here God can not stop us.
Imagine if God told you in your pre-mortal life that you will fail in mortality while you chose to come here. First, it would take an opportunity from you to know for yourself that this was true. Second, as I said when you choose to come here God can not stop you from making this choice. Third, God knows us very well. While we lived with Him before mortality He learned a lot about us. When we are born here we don't have blank history. we have long history. May be billion years? may be more, may be less. We can't remember now.
About God's predictions: God always says something like this:' IF you make this choice, this will happen. But IF you make this choice then this will happen." Most prophecies are CONDITIONAL, depends on what choices we decided to make. We can disappoint God, we can pleasantly surprise Him.

It is fun to create your own children and teach them true principles and then let them make their own choices, let them govern themselves.

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03-07-2017, 09:58 PM
RE: Why is the Christian God good?
(03-07-2017 06:42 PM)Alla Wrote:  Hmm, what is "good"? and according to whom?

An obvious example of "good" would be your omnipotent god (it) stepping in to provide food, drinking water, and medications to the estimated 3,000,000 sub-four year old children that die each and every year in Africa.

Even it made it rain, that'd solve two of these issues; food and water.

But (apparently) it chooses not to, despite being all-powerful. Which can only mean one of two things; it's an evil god, and doesn't care at all for these children, or; its not omnipotent, and lying to you.

And as far as defining "good" Alla, your god should already have shown you what it means by example. If you need me—an atheist—to tell you what "good" is, then all is lost.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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03-07-2017, 10:23 PM
RE: Why is the Christian God good?
(03-07-2017 09:17 PM)Alla Wrote:  Yes, but we chose to be born here...

No we didn't. That's absurd. Our biological parents choose when and where we'll be born.

Quote:Imagine if God told you in your pre-mortal life that you will fail in mortality while you chose to come here. First, it would take an opportunity from you to know for yourself that this was true. Second, as I said when you choose to come here God can not stop you from making this choice. Third, God knows us very well. While we lived with Him before mortality He learned a lot about us. When we are born here we don't have blank history. we have long history. May be billion years? may be more, may be less. We can't remember now.

Sorry, but this is just illogical, unscientific, nonsensical blathering. It doesn't mean anything. There is no "pre-mortal" life—before conception. And when we're born, we don't have any pre-history; we're a blank slate. No

Quote:About God's predictions: God always says something like this:' IF you make this choice, this will happen. But IF you make this choice then this will happen." Most prophecies are CONDITIONAL, depends on what choices we decided to make. We can disappoint God, we can pleasantly surprise Him.

Even more absurd gobbledygook. If you really want to partake in a serious debate Alla, then you'll have to refrain from positing fanciful, ultimately meaningless claims that have a zero basis in 21st century science.

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04-07-2017, 12:56 AM
RE: Why is the Christian God good?
(03-07-2017 09:17 PM)Alla Wrote:  
Gwaithmir Wrote:So, God created imperfect people,

According to the Gospel of Christ God created perfect man and perfect woman on this Earth and He let them to choose by themselves to remain being perfect.

> Wrong! Adam & Eve had no knowledge of right and wrong; ergo, they were not perfect. It was only AFTER they'd eaten the forbidden fruit did they become aware. And they had to be lured into the deed by the Devil, something God was responsible for by criminal negligence.

Gwaithmir Wrote:knowing that some of them would be damned because they behaved exactly the way he designed them to behave

Quote:Yes, but we chose to be born here.

> Wrong! My parents decided I would be born here; etc.

Quote:It is fun to create your own children and teach them true principles and then let them make their own choices, let them govern themselves.

> Indeed. No God necessary. Consider
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04-07-2017, 06:15 AM
RE: Why is the Christian God good?
(03-07-2017 06:42 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(30-06-2017 10:36 PM)Gwaithmir Wrote:  So, when God sanctioned the murders of Job's family and servants, and the wanton destruction of Job's property, that was a good thing?

> So, when God sanctioned the murders of thousands of innocent Egyptian boys, that was a good thing?

> So, when God sanctioned the practice of slavery, that was a good thing?

> So, when God sanctioned wars of conquest in his name, that was a good thing?

Hmm, what is "good"? and according to whom?

According to the OT books referenced in the 4 examples above, they were perceived as good things - unless you are a gnostic and believe the OT God is the Demiurge. Assuming that we're talking Orthodox Christianity, they would be good things because God is perfect and cannot commit evil acts due to his infinite goodness and mercy.

I think there are whole swaths of Christians and Muslims who not perceive the slaughter of children as evil if these acts are laid at God's feet because that would be a quicker route to heaven. Wars of conquest become opportunities to convert the hell bound heathens to a pathway to salvation, Testing Job and killing his children is a loyalty test that - if passed - gets you double your wealth in the end (even better kids than the last batch...), and slavery in the bible was simply a fact of life and was part of an earlier "age" or dispensation (if you're one of those types of fundies) because the world operated differently before Christ.

When you have a being who is outside of space/time and was the creator of all, then said being makes the rules. If he/she/it wants a rule in place to sacrifice one townsperson a year on a special day and across all towns and cities - then that's a good thing because God is supposed to be the one who determines morality.

These are the types of justifications you have to make in order for the system to work as it exists in its present form.
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