Why is the Christian God good?
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04-07-2017, 08:44 AM
RE: Why is the Christian God good?
OakTree500 Wrote:Good = that which is morally right; righteousness.
Evil = profound immorality and wickedness, especially when regarded as a supernatural force
What is moral?
What is immoral?
according to whom?

OakTree500 Wrote:) Humans do.
So, there is no one standard of good and evil. Then who is right and who is wrong about goodness of God of OT and NT?

OakTree500 Wrote:3) It's just WRONG, on so many levels.
I thought that to kill a person is neither good nor evil. But if a serial rapist and murderer wants to rape and to kill me and I kill him while defending myself I can say that it is GOOD/RIGHT thing to do.
For example, some people on the left believe it is good thing that Republican congressman was shot. They say it would be even better if he was dead.

OakTree500 Wrote:4) Neither. Not everything can be condensed into just "Good" or "Bad", some things are very individual to their cases
I agree, I would say that it is good to lie to save a Jew from the Nazi. It is not good to lie just to harm someone.
I guess that intentions behind the actions are very important. They make every act either good or evil.

So, when God of OT or NT acts, are His intentions good or evil? and according to whom they are good or evil?

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04-07-2017, 08:53 AM
RE: Why is the Christian God good?
OakTree500 Wrote:I'm just against people not having ALL the information (about the real world/science and all other religions) before they make very bold statements about who/what created the universe, and then spout reams of garbage about it, all based upon 1 of MANY religions/ideology's from around the world. It just makes my head hurt.
There is the difference between those who say "I KNOW" and those who say "I BELIEVE".
I say that I BELIEVE and I HOPE that one day I will KNOW.
Everyone spouts reams of garbage even scientists. Even doctors. They believe something and they spout it and they treat people. Later they say: "it was wrong".
When I KNOW that I am wrong I will admit it.
Am I wrong about who created worlds in unlimited and eternal space?

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04-07-2017, 08:54 AM
RE: Why is the Christian God good?
(04-07-2017 08:44 AM)Alla Wrote:  What is moral?
What is immoral?
according to whom?
That sort of thing is garbage, it just leads to circles and circles of questions. Sorry to be so blunt, but you could be there forever asking the same question, just about different words/things. "but what is language, who deciedes the letters of the alphabet? What is time, who/what decieds" and so on etc.

(04-07-2017 08:44 AM)Alla Wrote:  So, there is no one standard of good and evil. Then who is right and who is wrong about goodness of God of OT and NT?
That's the thing, there IS a fairly decent standard of what good/evil is. The entire bible is pretty much factual wrong, so I wouldn't bother splitting hairs about who/what in the old or new testaments is right or wrong.

(04-07-2017 08:44 AM)Alla Wrote:  I thought that to kill a person is neither good nor evil. But if a serial rapist and murderer wants to rape and to kill me and I kill him while defending myself I can say that it is GOOD/RIGHT thing to do.

For example, some people on the left believe it is good thing that Republican congressman was shot. They say it would be even better if he was dead.
Now you're getting into very particular scenarios.

In my personal opinion, in your first example, it's still wrong to kill the rapist first, HOWEVER, if you had no other choice other than to do so, then it's up to you to live with the fact you've killed a person, regardless of how you killed them and why. In the eyes of the law, self defense is an acceptable answer, and I agree you should not serve jail time in legitimate cases of self defense, but it is still morally wrong to kill, regardless.

Obviously in the latter example of republicans/democrats, that's just garbage of the highest order, and yes whilst people do talk/think like that, it's still very evident that people are just arguing about bullshit and then saying bullshit things about the opposition. If they actually acted on their claims, they would all be in jail for being huge dumbasses

(04-07-2017 08:44 AM)Alla Wrote:  So, when God of OT or NT acts, are His intentions good or evil? and according to whom they are good or evil?
See the previous answer:

The entire bible is pretty much factual wrong, so I wouldn't bother splitting hairs about who/what in the old or new testaments is right or wrong.

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04-07-2017, 08:59 AM
RE: Why is the Christian God good?
(04-07-2017 08:53 AM)Alla Wrote:  There is the difference between those who say "I KNOW" and those who say "I BELIEVE".
I say that I BELIEVE and I HOPE that one day I will KNOW.
Everyone spouts reams of garbage even scientists. Even doctors. They believe something and they spout it and they treat people. Later they say: "it was wrong".
When I KNOW that I am wrong I will admit it.
Am I wrong about who created worlds in unlimited and eternal space?

Ok:

1) "There is the difference between those who say "I KNOW" and those who say "I BELIEVE"." - This is correct
2) "Everyone spouts reams of garbage even scientists. Even doctors." - False, doctors and scientists will say, "I think X may relate to Y, but I will need to test it to prove if this is true or false" they will not say "This IS a thing" until it's been proven/disproven accordingly.
3) You do know you are wrong. I don't really want to be a person that calls you out on having faith, as I tihnk that's unfair, but deep down I think all theist know it's not true.

Believing is factual defined as: "An acceptance that something exists or is true, especially one without proof."

So if that's how you want to go on in life. that's fine. But in the real world, most things I presume you consider to be "spouting off as garbage" have been proven to be fact, so that ultimately proves your non factually supported belief system to be false.

Anyway, I'll stop now and leave that with you, as I really don't want to be "that guy".

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04-07-2017, 09:15 AM
RE: Why is the Christian God good?
mordant Wrote:.. although really just a variant of "who are you to judge god" which implies "everything that god does is good by definition, at least in context".
Or it implies that you or I have no idea why God is doing what He is doing.
I can say that If intentions are good then act is good. If intentions are evil then act is evil.

Who knows better what beneficial is: someone with specific knowledge and experience or someone who has neither knowledge nor experience?
If biblical claims are true wouldn't God be that being who has knowledge and experience no mortal man has?




mordant Wrote:Good is that which is beneficial and bad is that which is not.
If we think about biblical claims then according to them does God know that what He does would be beneficial?

mordant Wrote:Is not a being who feels unconstrained and un-obligated by morality, by definition immoral?
Yes, IF he knows and understands what moral is and immoral is. Does biblical God (according to biblical claims) feels unconstrained and un-obligated by morality?

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04-07-2017, 09:29 AM
RE: Why is the Christian God good?
OakTree500 Wrote:I don't really want to be a person that calls you out on having faith, as I tihnk that's unfair, but deep down I think all theist know it's not true
Have you ever had a feeling that something was true? I am talking about intuition. When you feel something intuitively you know deep down that your feeling and thoughts are true. This is how I feel about Restored Gospel.


P.S. You are good. I appreciate your HONEST and SINCERE comments.

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04-07-2017, 09:34 AM (This post was last modified: 04-07-2017 09:45 AM by OakTree500.)
RE: Why is the Christian God good?
(04-07-2017 09:29 AM)Alla Wrote:  
OakTree500 Wrote:I don't really want to be a person that calls you out on having faith, as I tihnk that's unfair, but deep down I think all theist know it's not true
Have you ever had a feeling that something was true? I am talking about intuition. When you feel something intuitively you know deep down that your feeling and thoughts are true. This is how I feel about Restored Gospel.

Fair enough, I'll leave that with you then. I would only say you open up a bit on the possibility that it might be wrong. All things considered, it probably is.

Remember, "intuition" is not a thing. Like people say "oh mothers intuition" or "I have a hunch about such and such", but it's like like a legitimate sense of anything, like how sight/hearing/taste are.

For example: I've had an intuition that my blu ray remote is somewhere in the house, after losing it. I spent 4 days searching the house from top to bottom, 100% knowing it's somewhere just waiting to be found. On the final search process, my wife admitted she'd thrown it out many years ago, as we weren't using it....and thus I felt like a right pillock.

The moral of the story is: you can "feel" certain things all you like, it doesn't make it true.

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04-07-2017, 10:09 AM
RE: Why is the Christian God good?
(04-07-2017 09:34 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  
(04-07-2017 09:29 AM)Alla Wrote:  Have you ever had a feeling that something was true? I am talking about intuition. When you feel something intuitively you know deep down that your feeling and thoughts are true. This is how I feel about Restored Gospel.

Fair enough, I'll leave that with you then. I would only say you open up a bit on the possibility that it might be wrong. All things considered, it probably is.

Remember, "intuition" is not a thing. Like people say "oh mothers intuition" or "I have a hunch about such and such", but it's like like a legitimate sense of anything, like how sight/hearing/taste are.

For example: I've had an intuition that my blu ray remote is somewhere in the house, after losing it. I spent 4 days searching the house from top to bottom, 100% knowing it's somewhere just waiting to be found. On the final search process, my wife admitted she'd thrown it out many years ago, as we weren't using it....and thus I felt like a right pillock.

The moral of the story is: you can "feel" certain things all you like, it doesn't make it true.

You may not realize this but Alla is a Moron.....er....I mean Mormon.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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04-07-2017, 10:30 AM
RE: Why is the Christian God good?
(04-07-2017 10:09 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(04-07-2017 09:34 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  Fair enough, I'll leave that with you then. I would only say you open up a bit on the possibility that it might be wrong. All things considered, it probably is.

Remember, "intuition" is not a thing. Like people say "oh mothers intuition" or "I have a hunch about such and such", but it's like like a legitimate sense of anything, like how sight/hearing/taste are.

For example: I've had an intuition that my blu ray remote is somewhere in the house, after losing it. I spent 4 days searching the house from top to bottom, 100% knowing it's somewhere just waiting to be found. On the final search process, my wife admitted she'd thrown it out many years ago, as we weren't using it....and thus I felt like a right pillock.

The moral of the story is: you can "feel" certain things all you like, it doesn't make it true.

You may not realize this but Alla is a Moron.....er....I mean Mormon.
Alla, I highly suggest you watch the south park episode on Mormonism:





Quote:Joseph Smith was called a prophet
(Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb)
He started the Mormon religion
(Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb).
(Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb)
Joseph Smith was called a prophet-

(Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb)
Many people believed Joseph
(Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb)
And that night he-ee saw an angel
(Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb)

(Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb)

Joseph Smith was called a prophet
(Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb)

(Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb)

He found the stones and golden plates
(Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb)
Even though nobody else ever saw them
(Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb)

(Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb)

(Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb)

And that's how the Book of Mormon was written
(Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb)
(Dumb dadumb dumb dumb dumb dumb)
(Dumb dadumb dumb dumb dumb dumb)
(Dahumb dahumb dumb dumb dumb dumb)
(Dumb dumb dumb dumb duuumb, duuumb.)

Martin went home to his wife
(Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb)
And showed her pages from the Book of Mormon
(Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb)

Lucy Harris smart smart smart
(Smart smart smart smart smart)

Martin Harris dumb dadumb-

Lucy Harris smart smart smart
Martin Harris dumb.
So Martin went on back to Smith
Said the pages had gone away
Smith got mad and told Martin
He needed to go pray
(Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb)

(Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb)

Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb.

Edit: And THAT is 1000 posts. Big Grin

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04-07-2017, 11:23 AM
RE: Why is the Christian God good?
(04-07-2017 09:15 AM)Alla Wrote:  I can say that If intentions are good then act is good. If intentions are evil then act is evil.
If intentions are good and outcomes are bad, then the at is somewhere between naive and negligent. Since god is supposed to be all-knowing, I'm going with negligent. Repeated negligence is willful negligence and indistinguishable from evil.
(04-07-2017 09:15 AM)Alla Wrote:  Who knows better what beneficial is: someone with specific knowledge and experience or someone who has neither knowledge nor experience?
If biblical claims are true wouldn't God be that being who has knowledge and experience no mortal man has?
In theory, I suppose. But "god knows best" only goes so far. "If you, being evil, know how to give good things to your children, how much more will your father in heaven give good things to those who know him?" is the rhetorical question in the Bible. In other words (1) good things are done by good people, therefore (2) even better things are done by good gods. And yet ... I took better care of my children, where it was within my power, than god takes care of his children on a good day. I always kept my children from harm in general and death in particular.
(04-07-2017 09:15 AM)Alla Wrote:  
mordant Wrote:Good is that which is beneficial and bad is that which is not.
If we think about biblical claims then according to them does God know that what He does would be beneficial?
It is claimed in the Bible that god knows such things but real-life outcomes belie that.
(04-07-2017 09:15 AM)Alla Wrote:  
mordant Wrote:Is not a being who feels unconstrained and un-obligated by morality, by definition immoral?
Yes, IF he knows and understands what moral is and immoral is. Does biblical God (according to biblical claims) feels unconstrained and un-obligated by morality?
The Biblical claim is that god IS unconstrained and un-obligated by societal morality. It must be thus, or he could not be omnipotent, which means entirely non-dependent on anything or anyone. As soon as god "feels constrained" in any way he is no longer all powerful.
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