Why is there something rather than nothing argument????
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18-11-2016, 05:44 PM
RE: Why is there something rather than nothing argument????
(18-11-2016 05:36 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  
(18-11-2016 05:24 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Go back and read the thread. I'm not going to repeat arguments that have already been made perfectly well by others. I'm tired of you.

And this is what we call deflection, instead of answering the question, you are telling me to go back and read the thread. I dare say I should know better the postulations others have put forth in this thread regarding this matter. For I've been here through the thick of it.

The question has been answered over and over and over again. You refuse to hear the answer. Goodbye.
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18-11-2016, 05:56 PM
RE: Why is there something rather than nothing argument????
(18-11-2016 05:38 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  
(18-11-2016 05:07 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  Science is based on evidence yes, but your belief in science is not. Do not mistake the two. Yours beliefs compared to the way a theist believes, they are not so different as they fundamentally rely on the same thing, words and consensus.

Do you or do you not accept things without proof?

There is a difference between "believing" in science and accepting the facts that science has provided humanity.

We can all accept that science has explained many facets of reality to us that we either didn't know or didn't fully understand. Take the theory of gravity, you don't just "believe" it, you accept it as a fact of life. Gravity always existed, we just didn't have a full understanding of it but the laws of gravity have been proven to be accurate over and over again so it's just a fact now, it's not a "belief".

If we were to present the law of universal gravity to a theist and state that it explains why the moon revolves around the Earth and they say "Nope! The moon revolves around the Earth because God put it there to control the tides and he controls it's movements!" They are using a faith "belief" to assert their claim, there is nothing factual about it but yes my claim that it's gravity makes a whole lot more sense and has been scientifically proven over and over.

Whenever a theist has ever asked me why I "believe" in science I always tell them I trust in the scientific method of hypothesis, study, testing, observation, modification of hypothesis, theory and peer review. Since this system is built upon a very solid and reality based foundation it's much easier to trust and "believe" than a theistic view that a magic spirit being is having a war with another spirit being over our souls that may or may not be subject to eternal torture or whatever the fuck they believe, literally anyone can create a religion based on any imaginary being and call it facts but it's not actually a fact, it's just a belief based on literally nothing but someone's thoughts and feelings, that's not the same as a scientific evidence based conclusion based on years of study and experimentation.

I hope you can see now how ridiculous it sounds to equate a scientific belief system to a religious belief especially since the truth is true no matter who believes it but religion only matters because some people got together and believed it.

I dare say that many religious people postulate the same thing about their own beliefs. 'well its different than believing in...' they probably assure themselves.

You are under the disposition that your belief without proof is somehow more excusable or logical than a theists' belief.

You justify it by saying 'well the scientific method is based on empirical evidence'. Do you not think that theists' have a very similar approach to how they justify their beliefs?

Were you ever a theist Sita? If you were, can you recall how you justified your beliefs then?

(18-11-2016 05:44 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(18-11-2016 05:36 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  And this is what we call deflection, instead of answering the question, you are telling me to go back and read the thread. I dare say I should know better the postulations others have put forth in this thread regarding this matter. For I've been here through the thick of it.

The question has been answered over and over and over again. You refuse to hear the answer. Goodbye.

I didn't know that I could refuse something someone else wasn't telling me in the first place.
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18-11-2016, 06:02 PM
RE: Why is there something rather than nothing argument????
(18-11-2016 05:56 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  You are under the disposition that your belief without proof is somehow more excusable or logical than a theists' belief.

You justify it by saying 'well the scientific method is based on empirical evidence'. Do you not think that theists' have a very similar approach to how they justify their beliefs?

Once again you demonstrate that you have no idea what empirical evidence means.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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18-11-2016, 06:07 PM
RE: Why is there something rather than nothing argument????
(18-11-2016 04:22 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  
(18-11-2016 04:18 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  I stand by my comments.

You do that. Drinking Beverage

I ask my fellow posters: Did I misstate the facts?

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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18-11-2016, 06:09 PM
RE: Why is there something rather than nothing argument????
Hello. Smile

Before I was completely quoting things so that every one could see all the information and that I wasn't quote mining or editing your comments.

But, since you don't give a rat's petunias about such things.

(18-11-2016 05:56 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  You justify it by saying 'well the scientific method is based on empirical evidence'.

No, people are NOT saying that. At all. People are explaining that the evidence that they have/find/resolve/etc leads to the conclusions etc. Not that they are just, simplistically, going for the "Well science tells me so".

You keep making this claim so that you can then equivocate that 'Believers(A)' are then the same as... actually... I'm only guessing that you're saying that 'Believers(A)' are the same as Non-theists. Consider

I am also betting that your reply will neither address these points nor resemble the context of them.

(18-11-2016 05:56 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  Do you not think that theists' have a very similar approach to how they justify their beliefs?

Again, as has been pointed out/explained, those who 'Believe(A)' in deities are NOT functioning in the same way as those who 'Believe(B)' in science or the scientific method (Or what ever other term for such you might come up with next)

(18-11-2016 05:56 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  Were you ever a theist Sita? If you were, can you recall how you justified your beliefs then?

There's a comment in reply to this of "Play the ball. Not the man."

Really Celestial_Wonder, be nice or people will very quickly respond in ways such that it is time to not play nice with you.
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18-11-2016, 06:20 PM
RE: Why is there something rather than nothing argument????
All this silliness reminds me of this scene.



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18-11-2016, 06:34 PM
RE: Why is there something rather than nothing argument????
(18-11-2016 06:09 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Hello. Smile

Before I was completely quoting things so that every one could see all the information and that I wasn't quote mining or editing your comments.

But, since you don't give a rat's petunias about such things.

My apologies.

Quote:No, people are NOT saying that. At all. People are explaining that the evidence that they have/find/resolve/etc leads to the conclusions etc. Not that they are just, simplistically, going for the "Well science tells me so".

and what evidence do they REALLY have? Other than the evidence that someone else said?

Quote:You keep making this claim so that you can then equivocate that 'Believers(A)' are then the same as... actually... I'm only guessing that you're saying that 'Believers(A)' are the same as Non-theists. Consider

I am also betting that your reply will neither address these points nor resemble the context of them.

Human behavior demands that believers(a) and believers(b) share similar psychological traits because they are both in fact human. Most likely. So I am saying they are indeed similar, i wouldn't use the word same though, not even for the most similar believers(a). Because to me everyone really is their own special little snowflake.

Quote:Again, as has been pointed out/explained, those who 'Believe(A)' in deities are NOT functioning in the same way as those who 'Believe(B)' in science or the scientific method (Or what ever other term for such you might come up with next)

As stated above, I believe everyone is their own little snowflake so naturally believer(a) is going to function a little differently than believer(b) but the principles regarding the very basics of their functioning remains the same.

Quote:There's a comment in reply to this of "Play the ball. Not the man."

Really Celestial_Wonder, be nice or people will very quickly respond in ways such that it is time to not play nice with you.

Before I even came to this forum my own inadequate rhetoric meant a shitstorm should follow. I do not blame others for this, but my own inability to explain things effectively in a way that they can relate to.
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18-11-2016, 06:37 PM (This post was last modified: 18-11-2016 06:50 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Why is there something rather than nothing argument????
Quote:I said that the way people believe in science is similar to the way people believe in religion.

And you're totally wrong. People don't "believe" in science.
Science is a method. It works, bitch.
It requires no "belief".
If you doubt that, try praying for a new heart valve and see how far that gets you.

Religious belief is an abandonment of reason. That may or may not be justified. So far, we've heard no reason to abandon reason. IN FACT, most religionists today try to explain how their beliefs are in allignment with what is known from science.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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18-11-2016, 06:42 PM
RE: Why is there something rather than nothing argument????
(18-11-2016 06:07 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(18-11-2016 04:22 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  You do that. Drinking Beverage

I ask my fellow posters: Did I misstate the facts?

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18-11-2016, 06:49 PM
RE: Why is there something rather than nothing argument????
(18-11-2016 06:34 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  .......and what evidence do they REALLY have? Other than the evidence that someone else said?

No.

Simply, no.

People KEEP explaining this difference to you. Over and over and over again.

I will be interested in your replies.
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