Why is there something rather than nothing argument????
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18-11-2016, 06:51 PM
RE: Why is there something rather than nothing argument????
(18-11-2016 06:37 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  And your totally wrong. People don't "believe" in science.
Science is a method. It works, bitch.
It requires no "belief".
If you doubt that, try praying for a new heart valve and see how far that gets you.

Religious belief is an abandonment of reason. That may or may not be justified. So far, we've heard no reason to abandon reason. IN FACT, most religionists today try to explain how their beliefs are in allignment with what is known from science.

if you're saying science requires no belief, are you saying that it runs on... FAITH!?

Big Grin

I'm not asking you to abandon your reason, but all this did start because I want others to treat believers with reason. To not mock or ridicule them. Because I know that the scientific method is probably one of the greatest things ever devised by mankind. But at the end of the day for us common folk, it all boils down to belief without proof, so I don't think we should mocking and ridiculing the religious for something that we ourselves do.

(18-11-2016 06:20 PM)Dark Wanderer Wrote:  All this silliness reminds me of this scene.




To be fair I did concede that faith probably wasn't the choicest of words I could have used.
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18-11-2016, 06:52 PM
RE: Why is there something rather than nothing argument????
(18-11-2016 04:32 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  
(18-11-2016 04:11 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  No, because that is not practical. Not everyone can be an expert in every field of study, there are only so many hours in the day,

And that is an excuse to justify belief without evidence.

Unbelievable...Facepalm

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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18-11-2016, 06:57 PM
RE: Why is there something rather than nothing argument????
(18-11-2016 06:52 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(18-11-2016 04:32 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  And that is an excuse to justify belief without evidence.

Unbelievable...Facepalm

I know, what a hypocrite right?
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18-11-2016, 06:57 PM
RE: Why is there something rather than nothing argument????
(18-11-2016 06:34 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  .......and what evidence do they REALLY have? Other than the evidence that someone else said?

You really do have absolutely no background in science, do you ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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18-11-2016, 06:57 PM
RE: Why is there something rather than nothing argument????
(18-11-2016 06:51 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  But at the end of the day for us common folk, it all boils down to belief without proof, so I don't think we should mocking and ridiculing the religious for something that we ourselves do.

Except, AGAIN, as people point out you are wrong in using the words in this way/manner.

Better still.. stop using your computer and internet service since you don't have any 'Proof(B)' in their veracity and tell us what you think using 'Belief(A)' so we can see how well it works out, okay?
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18-11-2016, 06:59 PM
RE: Why is there something rather than nothing argument????
(18-11-2016 05:56 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  I dare say that many religious people postulate the same thing about their own beliefs. 'well its different than believing in...' they probably assure themselves.

Why should I care what a theist tells themselves to justify their own beliefs if it's not based on evidence? That doesn't make my stance on the differences between religious beliefs and scientific beliefs change at all.

(18-11-2016 05:56 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  You are under the disposition that your belief without proof is somehow more excusable or logical than a theists' belief.

When did I say I believe in anything without proof? I said the truth is true no matter who believes it, a belief doesn't change the nature of reality no matter how hard you try but a belief can stop someone from accepting reality if it directly contradicts facts.

(18-11-2016 05:56 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  You justify it by saying 'well the scientific method is based on empirical evidence'. Do you not think that theists' have a very similar approach to how they justify their beliefs?

Why should I care how theists justify their beliefs? Why should their justification be different than mine or even affect mine in any way? I honestly don't care how they justify it, that's their fucking problem.

In the whole of human history as we know it there has never been a imagined being like a unicorn or a fairy or spirit being that was conjured into existence just by believing in it, no matter how much anyone tried.

I could sit in my living room crossed legged and imagine and meditate on a beautiful Pegasus and focus on it's every detail and no matter how hard I sit there really believing this being exists it won't actually exist except in my mind. How anyone would think an imagined being or object is just as likely to exist and just as reasonable to accept as an evidence based fact is totally beyond me.

(18-11-2016 05:56 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  Were you ever a theist Sita? If you were, can you recall how you justified your beliefs then?

The last time I was a theist I was 12 years old, I didn't "justify" my beliefs, I had been indoctrinated as a small child into believing in the religion of my parents. I came to the conclusion I was an atheist for many different reasons but that was 20 years ago and I've never gone back to being a theist. During the time I believed in God I also believed in unicorns, fairies and Santa Claus, do you care how I justified those beliefs as well?

A sincere belief means nothing to me and a "justified" belief means nothing without evidence. Is English your first or second language? I have a feeling you either don't understand basic words like evidence, reason and belief or you are just pretending you don't know. You are maybe just trying to sound smarter than you are by trying to act like any belief should be considered the same as even a scientific belief based on actual evidence, which makes no sense considering the actual definitions of all of these words.

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18-11-2016, 07:00 PM
RE: Why is there something rather than nothing argument????
(18-11-2016 06:57 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  
(18-11-2016 06:51 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  But at the end of the day for us common folk, it all boils down to belief without proof, so I don't think we should mocking and ridiculing the religious for something that we ourselves do.

Except, AGAIN, as people point out you are wrong in using the words in this way/manner.

Better still.. stop using your computer and internet service since you don't have any 'Proof(B)' in their veracity and tell us what you think using 'Belief(A)' so we can see how well it works out, okay?

I did concede that there were better words I could have used besides faith.

(18-11-2016 06:57 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(18-11-2016 06:34 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  .......and what evidence do they REALLY have? Other than the evidence that someone else said?

You really do have absolutely no background in science, do you ?

As a fellow posted on here just a little while ago, play the ball and not the man.
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18-11-2016, 07:05 PM
RE: Why is there something rather than nothing argument????
(18-11-2016 07:00 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  
(18-11-2016 06:57 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  You really do have absolutely no background in science, do you ?

As a fellow posted on here just a little while ago, play the ball and not the man.

Really? You're going to equate/hide behind that now?

Yeah, I'm out.

Perhaps we'll cross posts in other threads. Perhaps not.
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18-11-2016, 07:33 PM
RE: Why is there something rather than nothing argument????
(18-11-2016 06:59 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  Why should I care what a theist tells themselves to justify their own beliefs if it's not based on evidence? That doesn't make my stance on the differences between religious beliefs and scientific beliefs change at all.

Because by observing others you can better come to understand yourself, conversely, by observing your own behavior you can better come to understand others.

Quote:When did I say I believe in anything without proof? I said the truth is true no matter who believes it, a belief doesn't change the nature of reality no matter how hard you try but a belief can stop someone from accepting reality if it directly contradicts facts.

Why should I care how theists justify their beliefs? Why should their justification be different than mine or even affect mine in any way? I honestly don't care how they justify it, that's their fucking problem.

It becomes your problem if you ever seek to reason with them.

Quote:In the whole of human history as we know it there has never been a imagined being like a unicorn or a fairy or spirit being that was conjured into existence just by believing in it, no matter how much anyone tried.

I could sit in my living room crossed legged and imagine and meditate on a beautiful Pegasus and focus on it's every detail and no matter how hard I sit there really believing this being exists it won't actually exist except in my mind. How anyone would think an imagined being or object is just as likely to exist and just as reasonable to accept as an evidence based fact is totally beyond me.

It's beyond you because and I quote

Quote:I honestly don't care how they justify it, that's their fucking problem.

You aren't even trying to understand them.

Quote:The last time I was a theist I was 12 years old, I didn't "justify" my beliefs, I had been indoctrinated as a small child into believing in the religion of my parents. I came to the conclusion I was an atheist for many different reasons but that was 20 years ago and I've never gone back to being a theist. During the time I believed in God I also believed in unicorns, fairies and Santa Claus, do you care how I justified those beliefs as well?

I think I can guess at how you justified the existence of Santa Claus, Tongue but if you wish to tell me how you justified the other beliefs that would be fine as well.

I can not recall however, how I justified my own belief in a god, that was when I was 14-15.

Quote:A sincere belief means nothing to me and a "justified" belief means nothing without evidence. Is English your first or second language? I have a feeling you either don't understand basic words like evidence, reason and belief or you are just pretending you don't know. You are maybe just trying to sound smarter than you are by trying to act like any belief should be considered the same as even a scientific belief based on actual evidence, which makes no sense considering the actual definitions of all of these words.

You seem to care Sita, if you didn't care I dare say you wouldn't take the time of the day replying to me. I'm sorry if I can't be of more help to you.
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18-11-2016, 08:03 PM
RE: Why is there something rather than nothing argument????
(18-11-2016 07:33 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  You seem to care Sita, if you didn't care I dare say you wouldn't take the time of the day replying to me. I'm sorry if I can't be of more help to you.

You're right, I'm totally wasting my time since you don't even understand basic words, logic or even reality and seem to think a baseless belief in spirits is the same as a reasoned scientific belief based on experimentation, observation and peer review.

Also you wrote that there "several billions of religions", that's such a false number it's not even funny. That would be almost one religion per person alive, the actual number is below 5,000 actually so you can see how off base you are but why should you care? I'm sure you have your own emotional justifications for believing that, you'll just have to be the only one believing it.

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