Why liberal is a 4 letter word
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12-08-2012, 12:23 AM
RE: Why liberal is a 4 letter word
What I don't understand is how Republicans went from a smaller government model to, cut everything people need, to support the war and tax breaks for the rich.....

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12-08-2012, 01:20 AM
RE: Why liberal is a 4 letter word
(12-08-2012 12:23 AM)fstratzero Wrote:  What I don't understand is how Republicans went from a smaller government model to, cut everything people need, to support the war and tax breaks for the rich.....

Cos power tends to corrupt.
Absolutely power corrupts absolutely

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12-08-2012, 03:10 AM
RE: Why liberal is a 4 letter word
I am a Conservative Liberal. Wink

In case you are dense and don't understand sarcasm, I am a political moderate.

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12-08-2012, 03:39 AM
RE: Why liberal is a 4 letter word
(12-08-2012 03:10 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  I am a Conservative Liberal. Wink

In case you are dense and don't understand sarcasm, I am a political moderate.

That's a relief cos for a moment we were thinking you were a liberal conservative. Ugh!

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12-08-2012, 06:02 AM
RE: Why liberal is a 4 letter word
(12-08-2012 03:39 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(12-08-2012 03:10 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  I am a Conservative Liberal. Wink

In case you are dense and don't understand sarcasm, I am a political moderate.

That's a relief cos for a moment we were thinking you were a liberal conservative. Ugh!

No, no, no. Those guys have disgusting beliefs.

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12-08-2012, 07:17 AM
RE: Why liberal is a 4 letter word
(12-08-2012 12:23 AM)fstratzero Wrote:  What I don't understand is how Republicans went from a smaller government model to, cut everything people need, to support the war and tax breaks for the rich.....

That is not a very honest description of the GOP beliefs, or at least too simplistic.

We do not want to cut everything people need, but we do believe that we have become too dependent on handouts.

I think going into Afhghanistan was neccessary, Iraq, not so much. However, once the decision to go to Iraq was made I supported it. I also spent 12 months there.

I think we all want a fair tax system that does not penalize people for being successful.
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12-08-2012, 07:59 AM
RE: Why liberal is a 4 letter word
(12-08-2012 07:17 AM)tnt4philly Wrote:  
(12-08-2012 12:23 AM)fstratzero Wrote:  What I don't understand is how Republicans went from a smaller government model to, cut everything people need, to support the war and tax breaks for the rich.....

That is not a very honest description of the GOP beliefs, or at least too simplistic.

We do not want to cut everything people need, but we do believe that we have become too dependent on handouts.

I think going into Afhghanistan was neccessary, Iraq, not so much. However, once the decision to go to Iraq was made I supported it. I also spent 12 months there.

I think we all want a fair tax system that does not penalize people for being successful.

Dude, you've gone off script.

This thread is about polarisation.

You are supposed to accuse the Democrats of being lily-livered, lesbian, earthy-crunchy-greeny, peacenik free-loaders.

Try again.

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12-08-2012, 10:40 PM
RE: Why liberal is a 4 letter word
Where the car goes off the cliff is people want to point to differences and expand them to cartoonish proportions. If you don't agree with them your some kind of evil being bent on the destruction of the human race. The enemy of America are conservative...The enemy of Americal are liberals.....

There are lots of things we must do to secure the future for America. One is to stop spending $1.3 trillion more than we have. Consider that all the 1040 tax returns total about $1 trillion and corporate taxes total about $1.3 trillion (yes corporations pay more taxes than individuals). At our current rate we will hit $20 trillion in debt in 2016 and we have a $14 trillion with GDP growing at about 1.2% (which sucks). This is a real possibility and it spells total collapse of the US economy in less than 5 years.

We'll just tax the rich? Not so fast. The top 10% already pays the bulk of the income taxes. How much more can you get from them? Actually you will get less if you raise the current tax rates. Studies show 28% is the optimal tax rate for incomes between $50,000 to $300,000. We are at 34.5% now on the top rate. The current president wants to raise it to around 40%. That's economic suicide. We will get less from the rich in total as they alter their pay plans, reduce the size of their business and stop hiring. Growth will decrease. Unemployment will rise even higher.

Our corporate tax rates are at 35%. The highest of any industrialized nation. The EU is lowering their rates. Multinational corporation are leaving the US now and many are ready to go if the US stays this course. Now add the healthcare act.

What are we thinking? We want social justice. Income redistribution. That's seems to be more important than survival as a nation. Are we this ignorant of basic economics? It appears so.

The main problem then is the lack on education/perspective of the American voter. We want free stuff and we want it now. We are entitled to it because we are Americans. Unfortunately, there is no free lunch. You are not entitled to a $50,000 a year job just because you have a US social security number. If you don't earn what you take, someone else must earn more than they take in equal value. That's fairness?

Global Perspective:
3 Billion people in the world live on less than $1,000 dollars a year in income. Americans enjoy a median income of around $43,000 per household. A welfare mother with two kids in Wisconsin can receive $32,700 in annual benefits from the state. What we have are greedy rich people who make $30,000 a year for nothing complaining about greedy rich people making millions. The "relative" rich in America get better healthcare. That's unacceptable!!! Tonight there is a woman in Haiti sleeping under a blue tarp with two small children. She will wake up in the morning and take her one possession, a 5 gal bucked, to the well for water. Her kids will eat dirt to kill the hunger pains. Meanwhile a jobless graduate of Brown University will hit the Starbucks for a Latte on his way the OWS rally. He'll check his email on his iPhone and text how capitalism is the root of all evil. He's pissed that he can't find a job with his history degree and that the government should forgive his student loans to the tune of $160,000. He wants to kill the greedy people working on Wall Street. Anyone in a suit will do.

You see the injustice arrow just points up. We look at who has more than us and call it unfair. If you have less that's your fault. Who careas about the 3 billion living in real poverty. That's their problem. I want my bailout from the government and I if I don't get it now there will be hell to pay. I want income redistributed from the greedy Wall Street exec to me, but I don't want my income redistributed to the woman in Haiti.

The history of America will be written as the classic case of the golden goose. "They killed the goose (capitalism) to get at it's wealth, only to find no wealth inside. It was the system of free markets and free people that created the wealth. It wasn't property itself that created the wealth, it was the right to own the peoperty that created the wealth."

That concludes my rant for the day. Thanks for listening.

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12-08-2012, 11:01 PM
RE: Why liberal is a 4 letter word
Historian John Lukacs noted in 2004 that then-President George W. Bush, confident that many Americans regarded "liberal" as a pejorative term, used it to label his political opponents during campaign speeches, while his opponents subsequently avoided identifying themselves as liberal.

Add some Fox News and a couple of years, and everything the republicans do not like is labeled liberal, including science.

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12-08-2012, 11:40 PM (This post was last modified: 15-08-2012 10:52 PM by HDT.)
RE: Why liberal is a 4 letter word
(12-08-2012 10:40 PM)Thomas Wrote:  Where the car goes off the cliff is people want to point to differences and expand them to cartoonish proportions. If you don't agree with them your some kind of evil being bent on the destruction of the human race. The enemy of America are conservative...The enemy of Americal are liberals.....

There are lots of things we must do to secure the future for America. One is to stop spending $1.3 trillion more than we have. Consider that all the 1040 tax returns total about $1 trillion and corporate taxes total about $1.3 trillion (yes corporations pay more taxes than individuals). At our current rate we will hit $20 trillion in debt in 2016 and we have a $14 trillion with GDP growing at about 1.2% (which sucks). This is a real possibility and it spells total collapse of the US economy in less than 5 years.

We'll just tax the rich? Not so fast. The top 10% already pays the bulk of the income taxes. How much more can you get from them? Actually you will get less if you raise the current tax rates. Studies show 28% is the optimal tax rate for incomes between $50,000 to $300,000. We are at 34.5% now on the top rate. The current president wants to raise it to around 40%. That's economic suicide. We will get less from the rich in total as they alter their pay plans, reduce the size of their business and stop hiring. Growth will decrease. Unemployment will rise even higher.

Our corporate tax rates are at 35%. The highest of any industrialized nation. The EU is lowering their rates. Multinational corporation are leaving the US now and many are ready to go if the US stays this course. Now add the healthcare act.

What are we thinking? We want social justice. Income redistribution. That's seems to be more important than survival as a nation. Are we this ignorant of basic economics? It appears so.

The main problem then is the lack on education/perspective of the American voter. We want free stuff and we want it now. We are entitled to it because we are Americans. Unfortunately, there is no free lunch. You are not entitled to a $50,000 a year job just because you have a US social security number. If you don't earn what you take, someone else must earn more than they take in equal value. That's fairness?

Global Perspective:
3 Billion people in the world live on less than $1,000 dollars a year in income. Americans enjoy a median income of around $43,000 per household. A welfare mother with two kids in Wisconsin can receive $32,700 in annual benefits from the state. What we have are greedy rich people who make $30,000 a year for nothing complaining about greedy rich people making millions. The "relative" rich in America get better healthcare. That's unacceptable!!! Tonight there is a woman in Haiti sleeping under a blue tarp with two small children. She will wake up in the morning and take her one possession, a 5 gal bucked, to the well for water. Her kids will eat dirt to kill the hunger pains. Meanwhile a jobless graduate of Brown University will hit the Starbucks for a Latte on his way the OWS rally. He'll check his email on his iPhone and text how capitalism is the root of all evil. He's pissed that he can't find a job with his history degree and that the government should forgive his student loans to the tune of $160,000. He wants to kill the greedy people working on Wall Street. Anyone in a suit will do.

You see the injustice arrow just points up. We look at who has more than us and call it unfair. If you have less that's your fault. Who careas about the 3 billion living in real poverty. That's their problem. I want my bailout from the government and I if I don't get it now there will be hell to pay. I want income redistributed from the greedy Wall Street exec to me, but I don't want my income redistributed to the woman in Haiti.

The history of America will be written as the classic case of the golden goose. "They killed the goose (capitalism) to get at it's wealth, only to find no wealth inside. It was the system of free markets and free people that created the wealth. It wasn't property itself that created the wealth, it was the right to own the peoperty that created the wealth."

That concludes my rant for the day. Thanks for listening.

I don't quite understand why you attribute an estimated $30,000 in benefits to being "rich". Please explain.

EDIT: Thanks for the response Thomas. Keep fighting the good fight against those goddamn greedy assholes taking government handouts. Fuck those policies that allow those children to eat, get medical care and, you know, live a semi more dignified life. Also, just because it's a fact that people in this world are suffering even worse atrocities does not mean that Americans suffering is de facto nonexistent. Wanting healthcare or food does not make you greedy. Those same impoverished people in Haiti that you speak of would like the same things, and they should have them as well, but that by no means makes the poor in this country "greedy" because they live in a nation wealthy enough to give them the bare necessities that they were not as goddamn lucky to be born with.

"A man who dares waste an hour of his life has not discovered the value of life." - Charles Darwin
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