Why people need God for morality
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02-11-2016, 04:41 PM
RE: Why people need God for morality
(02-11-2016 03:47 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(02-11-2016 03:41 PM)Dark Wanderer Wrote:  Any lurker that comes here can easily see the nutjob theist clowns that reguarly come through here and get a hell of a laugh. I know I do.


Any lurker can see that the atheists here spend a great deal more time figuring out what they don't believe in, more so than what they do believe in. Hence why the position of "lacking a belief", is so popular. When it comes to dealing with what folks here believe, more so than what they don't believe in, what you get is a sea of confusion, and absurdities. The cloister in places like this to find comfort in their bewildered state.




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That's because we are all humans and have different personalities and opinions. Confusion is a part of it. Deal with it.

Or join a silly cult and try the placebo affect, which I'm guessing you've already done.
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02-11-2016, 04:48 PM
RE: Why people need God for morality
(02-11-2016 04:26 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  No I think it's intellectually dishonest to interpret my arguments here as supporting or defending theism. Just because I'm a theist, doesn't mean I'm particularly interested in persuading a bunch of atheists on the internet to become theist, which is just as much a fools errand.

Im more interested in seeing if atheist can be consistent, than in persuading anyone of theism.

I come with one particular hypothesis that atheists are just confused, and plod and questions to see how well that holds true, and whether or not it's merely a product of my confirmation , or actually true. It's easier dealing with one biases, when not enveloped in a vacuum. When you're not participating for the sake of getting likes.

You know, I tend to assume that people come here with the intent to converse honestly.

I seem to forget that you've posted in the past (as here) that this is not the case.

I appreciate the reminder.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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02-11-2016, 04:49 PM
RE: Why people need God for morality
(02-11-2016 04:26 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  No I think it's intellectually dishonest to interpret my arguments here as supporting or defending theism. Just because I'm a theist

Im more interested in seeing if atheist can be consistent, than in persuading anyone of theism.

I'm sorry but I don't believe you.

In any case, being confused is not a bad thing, being certain (when you are wrong) is.

That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.”
-P.C. Hodgell - Seeker’s Mask - Kirien
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02-11-2016, 04:51 PM
RE: Why people need God for morality
(02-11-2016 04:26 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  No I think it's intellectually dishonest to interpret my arguments here as supporting or defending theism. Just because I'm a theist, doesn't mean I'm particularly interested in persuading a bunch of atheists on the internet to become theist, which is just as much a fools errand.

Im more interested in seeing if atheist can be consistent, than in persuading anyone of theism.

I come with one particular hypothesis that atheists are just confused, and plod and questions to see how well that holds true, and whether or not it's merely a product of my confirmation , or actually true. It's easier dealing with one biases, when not enveloped in a vacuum. When you're not participating for the sake of getting likes.





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I'm always confused, in some way or another. What's wrong with that? Are you saying that you have all the answers? That must be nice.
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02-11-2016, 04:55 PM
RE: Why people need God for morality
(02-11-2016 04:26 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  No I think it's intellectually dishonest to interpret my arguments here as supporting or defending theism. J

Quote:The ridiculousness of atheism, displayed multiple times in places like this, is all the evidence one would need to believe God exists.

And you say you're try to see if atheists are consistent.

Fuck
Facepalm

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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02-11-2016, 04:55 PM
RE: Why people need God for morality
(02-11-2016 04:51 PM)Dark Wanderer Wrote:  
(02-11-2016 04:26 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  No I think it's intellectually dishonest to interpret my arguments here as supporting or defending theism. Just because I'm a theist, doesn't mean I'm particularly interested in persuading a bunch of atheists on the internet to become theist, which is just as much a fools errand.

Im more interested in seeing if atheist can be consistent, than in persuading anyone of theism.

I come with one particular hypothesis that atheists are just confused, and plod and questions to see how well that holds true, and whether or not it's merely a product of my confirmation , or actually true. It's easier dealing with one biases, when not enveloped in a vacuum. When you're not participating for the sake of getting likes.

I'm always confused, in some way or another. What's wrong with that? Are you saying that you have all the answers? That must be nice.

Yes, theists have all the answers, but this one in particular rather using arguments for a different kind of God than the kind he think is the right one just for the kicks, that's what he is saying.

That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.”
-P.C. Hodgell - Seeker’s Mask - Kirien
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02-11-2016, 05:08 PM
RE: Why people need God for morality
(02-11-2016 04:36 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  [quote]
Objective:
Existing independent of thought or an observer as part of reality.
dictionary


Yes, but not binding on all parties. If I create a set of robots to behave according to a certain rules, accomplish certain goals, it goes without saying that those rules and goals are not a matter of the robots opinions or preferences. It's an aspect of their inherent nature. An aspect of independent of their own thought or observation, but part of their very reality. Or by definition objective. Regardless if their designer is bound by the same rules or not.

To further clarify what is being implied by objective here. If a claim can either be true or false, then by definition it would be either objectively true, or objectively false. Such as the robots have an intrinsic purpose.

For a claim be subjective, it's neither true nor false. Such as Italian food taste better than Indian food. It's matter of a preference not truth.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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02-11-2016, 05:14 PM
RE: Why people need God for morality
(02-11-2016 02:25 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(02-11-2016 02:21 PM)Chas Wrote:  Because their cultures have taught them that.

Judging that a variety of studies show a core morality, independent of culture, indicates that there's more to those beliefs, than just cultural influences. It would be more accurate to appeal to Darwinian factors, than cultural influences. That a variety of our beliefs are product of selected behaviors and inclinations, that the beliefs produced by this are our means of attempting to articulate these factors.

I have, on several occasions, pointed out the likely evolutionary basis of our common 'moral sense'. It is based on empathy, in-group/out-group feelings, and self-preservation.
Evolution has selected for care of the young, self-sacrifice for close family members, and other factors on which moralities are based.

But the actual moral rules that people get are the product of those filtered through particular cultures.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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02-11-2016, 05:15 PM
RE: Why people need God for morality
(02-11-2016 02:44 PM)pablo Wrote:  
(02-11-2016 02:38 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  All the evidence points to a core morality, which shouldn't be surprising to those of us who hold to a Darwinian perspective. Cross cultures studies, showing a similar reaction across cultures in relationship to a variety of moral dilemmas, indicate also that a variety of our moral beliefs, can't be reduced to cultural learning.


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Of course some morals will cross cultures because they apply to humans. The Golden Rule will apply globally because it makes sense, not because it is a divine, god-given, outside, objective influence.

The only way you can prove outside objective morality, is with control subjects who have not been exposed to any cultural teachings or rules.

And even that won't do it. It will just indicate common human values.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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02-11-2016, 05:18 PM
RE: Why people need God for morality
(02-11-2016 04:51 PM)Dark Wanderer Wrote:  I'm always confused, in some way or another. What's wrong with that? Are you saying that you have all the answers? That must be nice.

Just because I see you as confused, doesn't mean that I believe it's wrong for you to be confused. I wouldn't know how to make you any less confused. It's not even evident to me that you desire to be anything other than confused.

That this confusion is often worn as a badge of an honor, a final resting place, than a state to be dug out of. You'll explain the world away to preserve it. Driven out of a desire to believe nothing, rather than something.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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