Why people need God for morality
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02-11-2016, 05:23 PM
RE: Why people need God for morality
(02-11-2016 05:18 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(02-11-2016 04:51 PM)Dark Wanderer Wrote:  I'm always confused, in some way or another. What's wrong with that? Are you saying that you have all the answers? That must be nice.

Just because I see you as confused, doesn't mean that I believe it's wrong for you to be confused. I wouldn't know how to make you any less confused. It's not even evident to me that you desire to be anything other than confused.

That this confusion is often worn as a badge of an honor, a final resting place, than a state to be dug out of. You'll explain the world away to preserve it. Driven out of a desire to believe nothing, rather than something.

Being confused is a part of reality. You can either accept it or pretend that you know all the answers. I accept it.

"Confused" isn't really the word that I would choose though. It's very vague. I would just say that we don't have all the answers.
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02-11-2016, 05:25 PM
RE: Why people need God for morality
(02-11-2016 05:08 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  For a claim be subjective, it's neither true nor false. Such as Italian food taste better than Indian food. It's matter of a preference not truth.

Wrong again Tomato.
Its is absolutely true that some foods taste better to some people.

Your powers of critical thinking are non-existent.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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02-11-2016, 05:26 PM
RE: Why people need God for morality
(02-11-2016 05:14 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(02-11-2016 02:25 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Judging that a variety of studies show a core morality, independent of culture, indicates that there's more to those beliefs, than just cultural influences. It would be more accurate to appeal to Darwinian factors, than cultural influences. That a variety of our beliefs are product of selected behaviors and inclinations, that the beliefs produced by this are our means of attempting to articulate these factors.

I have, on several occasions, pointed out the likely evolutionary basis of our common 'moral sense'. It is based on empathy, in-group/out-group feelings, and self-preservation.
Evolution has selected for care of the young, self-sacrifice for close family members, and other factors on which moralities are based.

But the actual moral rules that people get are the product of those filtered through particular cultures.

Again you seem to want to paint in black and while. You acknowledge a common moral sense, as a result of evolutionary factors, rather than cultural factors. But yet can't seem to accept that a variety of moral beliefs can be the result of evolutionary factors as well.

Such as the example of a mother evolutionary bond with her infant, leading a mother to believe it's morally wrong to abandon one's child.

It's not true that absent of a culture to influence her into believing this, that she wouldn't be led to believe this based on those biological underpinnings. The only difference between her and a chimp that feels the same underlying sensations and feelings, is that the mother attempts to articulate this in a belief.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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02-11-2016, 05:28 PM
RE: Why people need God for morality
(02-11-2016 05:25 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Its is absolutely true that some foods taste better to some people.

Your powers of critical thinking are non-existent.

Yet it's not absolutely true that Italian food taste better than Indian food.

Your powers of critical thinking are non-existent.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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02-11-2016, 05:28 PM
RE: Why people need God for morality
What's "painting in back and white" is claiming that there is "objective morality".

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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02-11-2016, 05:29 PM
RE: Why people need God for morality
(02-11-2016 05:28 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(02-11-2016 05:25 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Its is absolutely true that some foods taste better to some people.

Your powers of critical thinking are non-existent.

Yet it's not absolutely true that Italian food taste better than Indian food.

Your powers of critical thinking are non-existent.

To some people. Idiot. YOUR claim is 100 % false.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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02-11-2016, 05:29 PM
RE: Why people need God for morality
(02-11-2016 05:18 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(02-11-2016 04:51 PM)Dark Wanderer Wrote:  I'm always confused, in some way or another. What's wrong with that? Are you saying that you have all the answers? That must be nice.

Just because I see you as confused, doesn't mean that I believe it's wrong for you to be confused. I wouldn't know how to make you any less confused. It's not even evident to me that you desire to be anything other than confused.

That this confusion is often worn as a badge of an honor, a final resting place, than a state to be dug out of. You'll explain the world away to preserve it. Driven out of a desire to believe nothing, rather than something.

Idk about every atheist, but to me it is worn like a badge of honor.

If I'm uncertain and neutral, I'm unbiased, and I'm not being deceived, I value this lack of certainty.

I'm not sure what you meant with ''you will explain the world away to preserve it'', but If you meant that this is exactly what keeps me intellectually humble and curious, then you are right.

But is not a desire to believe nothing, is a desire to believe only in the truth, which is (currently) very hard to access in some cases.

That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.”
-P.C. Hodgell - Seeker’s Mask - Kirien
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02-11-2016, 05:57 PM
RE: Why people need God for morality
(02-11-2016 05:29 PM)Velvet Wrote:  If I'm uncertain and neutral, I'm unbiased, and I'm not being deceived, I value this lack of certainty.

A brain scan is unlikely to reveal that your brain is in a neutral state, or distinction between this neutral state, non-neutral state, no more so than a brain scan of a dog or a chimp would demonstrate such distinctions.

I say you desire more so to feel as if you're unbiased, neutral, objective, than to actually be neutral, unbiased, or objective. That there's a state you associate with this feeling, and preserving that state is what you value. And another state you associate with being bias, subjective, emotional, etc... that you desire to stay far away from. You don't want to be like certain people, but you do want to be like certain other people.

That there's likely a variety of individuals you admire, look up to, who you see as exemplar of that state, that you seek to emulate and embody. To take on the air in which they encompass to you. You repeat their slogans, and ditties, seek solace among those who seek the same.

Quote:I'm not sure what you meant with ''you will explain the world away to preserve it'', but If you meant that this is exactly what keeps me intellectually humble and curious, then you are right.

But is not a desire to believe nothing, is a desire to believe only in the truth, which is (currently) very hard to access in some cases.

And what do you believes drives this physical desire for truth? What evolutionary desire is fed by it?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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02-11-2016, 06:06 PM
RE: Why people need God for morality
(02-11-2016 05:18 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Driven out of a desire to believe nothing, rather than something.

I believe lots of things, for example I believe you're a stupid little cunt who CAN'T STOP TELLING OTHER PEOPLE WHAT THEY THINK, no matter how many times you get called out on it.

It is held that valour is the chiefest virtue and most dignifies the haver.
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02-11-2016, 06:13 PM
RE: Why people need God for morality
(02-11-2016 06:06 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  I believe lots of things, for example I believe you're a stupid little cunt who CAN'T STOP TELLING OTHER PEOPLE WHAT THEY THINK, no matter how many times you get called out on it.

Not sure why you're so worked up by what I've said here, but okay.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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