Why people need God for morality
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06-11-2016, 03:42 PM
RE: Why people need God for morality
(06-11-2016 03:33 PM)Velvet Wrote:  If only this fly could grasp reality a bit better, I'm certainly glad it can't tho, munch, munch, munch.

You ever heard of Blindsight? It's a condition where people who are cortically blind, and do not consciously see. But when asked to distinguish between objects, like asked to point to the yellow object. The often correctly point to the right item, though they see themselves as purely guessing. They don't consciously grasp what they see.

Would you say they grasp reality here? They grasp that the object that their pointing to is yellow, even though they lack any conscious awareness of this?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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06-11-2016, 03:48 PM
RE: Why people need God for morality
(06-11-2016 09:22 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  When some theists deal with truths about the world, that are in conflict with a variety of their religious beliefs, cognitive dissonance appears, not as aide to decipher what’s actually true, but to assist in preserving their deeply held false beliefs in light of the true but conflicting scenario here. If cognitive dissonance didn’t exist here, the the individual would be far more receptive to acknowledge their previous views are wrong.

You don't even know what those words mean. Facepalm
Weeping

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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06-11-2016, 04:53 PM
RE: Why people need God for morality
(06-11-2016 07:40 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  If the brain did not want to fall victim to falsehoods in some instance, than cognitive dissonance, no biases would exist. Cognitive dissonance is the brain ways to telling you not to believe the alternative to your valued beliefs, even if the alternative is true

That is not what cognitive dissonance is.

Cognitive dissonance is the state of having inconsistent thought and beliefs.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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06-11-2016, 04:58 PM (This post was last modified: 06-11-2016 05:09 PM by Tomasia.)
Why people need God for morality
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"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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06-11-2016, 05:01 PM (This post was last modified: 06-11-2016 05:09 PM by Tomasia.)
Why people need God for morality
(06-11-2016 04:53 PM)Chas Wrote:  That is not what cognitive dissonance is.

Cognitive dissonance is the state of having inconsistent thought and beliefs.


Have you personally ever experienced cognitive dissonance?

Is the person with the inconsistent beliefs here aware that their beliefs are inconsistent? If we were to ask them whether they see their thoughts and beliefs as inconsistent are they likely to answer yes?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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06-11-2016, 08:27 PM (This post was last modified: 06-11-2016 08:46 PM by Chas.)
RE: Why people need God for morality
(06-11-2016 05:01 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(06-11-2016 04:53 PM)Chas Wrote:  That is not what cognitive dissonance is.

Cognitive dissonance is the state of having inconsistent thought and beliefs.


Have you personally ever experienced cognitive dissonance?

Is the person with the inconsistent beliefs here aware that their beliefs are inconsistent? If we were to ask them whether they see their thoughts and beliefs as inconsistent are they likely to answer yes?

I'm not arguing with you - I'm telling you what the definition is. You don't appear to understand it.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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06-11-2016, 08:35 PM
RE: Why people need God for morality
(06-11-2016 05:01 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(06-11-2016 04:53 PM)Chas Wrote:  That is not what cognitive dissonance is.

Cognitive dissonance is the state of having inconsistent thought and beliefs.


Have you personally ever experienced cognitive dissonance?

Is the person with the inconsistent beliefs here aware that their beliefs are inconsistent? If we were to ask them whether they see their thoughts and beliefs as inconsistent are they likely to answer yes?

Some are, some aren't. Some religionists are capable of compartmentalizing their dissonances.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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06-11-2016, 11:38 PM (This post was last modified: 07-11-2016 03:08 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Why people need God for morality
(06-11-2016 05:01 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Have you personally ever experienced cognitive dissonance?

Yes, it is a very enjoyable podcast, and highly recommended.

[Image: CognitiveDissonanceLogo-250x250.jpg]


(06-11-2016 05:01 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Is the person with the inconsistent beliefs here aware that their beliefs are inconsistent?

They can be. Those who are usually do things to try and harmonize the discrepancy, in an effort to mitigate or lessen the dissonance.

Take someone who is virulently anti-gay, and for religious reasons. Sometimes those people discover that those they love and hold dear, people they know very well, are gay. Now they have a problem, because now their demonization of gay people as a whole comes crashing into their own very real experience with people they love and care for, and who also happen to be gay.

Some people double down on the hate. This is when you get really hurtful shit like parents disowning their children or forcing them into 'conversion therapy'. Others conversely give up on the hate rhetoric, acknowledging that they were wrong in their earlier beliefs, and maintain their ties to their friends and family.

But the longer someone were to stay in that middle ground? Maintaining their hateful beliefs without squaring that with their love for their gay friends and family? That causes cognitive dissonance. That square peg needs to fit into that round hole eventually, it's only a matter of which side gets whittled down to make them fit again. Some people hold off on reconciliation far too long, and that's when you get anti-gay hate pastors being arrested for soliciting gay sex in airport bathrooms.


(06-11-2016 05:01 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  If we were to ask them whether they see their thoughts and beliefs as inconsistent are they likely to answer yes?

How often do you address your own mistakes? Drinking Beverage

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07-11-2016, 07:17 AM
RE: Why people need God for morality
(06-11-2016 08:27 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(06-11-2016 05:01 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Have you personally ever experienced cognitive dissonance?

Is the person with the inconsistent beliefs here aware that their beliefs are inconsistent? If we were to ask them whether they see their thoughts and beliefs as inconsistent are they likely to answer yes?

I'm not arguing with you - I'm telling you what the definition is. You don't appear to understand it.


So you can't answer whether or not you've ever suffered from cognitive dissonance?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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07-11-2016, 07:23 AM
RE: Why people need God for morality
(06-11-2016 11:38 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(06-11-2016 05:01 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Have you personally ever experienced cognitive dissonance?

Yes, it is a very enjoyable podcast, and highly recommended.

[Image: CognitiveDissonanceLogo-250x250.jpg]


(06-11-2016 05:01 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Is the person with the inconsistent beliefs here aware that their beliefs are inconsistent?

They can be. Those who are usually do things to try and harmonize the discrepancy, in an effort to mitigate or lessen the dissonance.

Take someone who is virulently anti-gay, and for religious reasons. Sometimes those people discover that those they love and hold dear, people they know very well, are gay. Now they have a problem, because now their demonization of gay people as a whole comes crashing into their own very real experience with people they love and care for, and who also happen to be gay.

Some people double down on the hate. This is when you get really hurtful shit like parents disowning their children or forcing them into 'conversion therapy'. Others conversely give up on the hate rhetoric, acknowledging that they were wrong in their earlier beliefs, and maintain their ties to their friends and family.

But the longer someone were to stay in that middle ground? Maintaining their hateful beliefs without squaring that with their love for their gay friends and family? That causes cognitive dissonance. That square peg needs to fit into that round hole eventually, it's only a matter of which side gets whittled down to make them fit again. Some people hold off on reconciliation far too long, and that's when you get anti-gay hate pastors being arrested for soliciting gay sex in airport bathrooms.


(06-11-2016 05:01 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  If we were to ask them whether they see their thoughts and beliefs as inconsistent are they likely to answer yes?

How often do you address your own mistakes? Drinking Beverage
And Seth is on a new episode.

I don't think there's much more needed to add to this conversation in its continual repetition in the same ways in new threads every few months.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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