Why religion is bullshit.
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13-06-2012, 08:44 AM
Why religion is bullshit.
I am new to this website and have only developed my free-thinking side the past couple of years.
I have read the Quran, Bible and Gita as a child and have been attracted to the glamour and fantasies weaved into religion. But now that my brain has actually began to work, I just want to hear what all of you have to say. Your views and your arguments and things you think I should know.

But before that, let me tell you about the flaw of religion. Every religion, in its basic form, stresses on the importance of 'realizing' god, following his teachings, and saving yourself from eternal doom. And each of these religion clearly state that their path is the only path. There can be no other. Now just for the sake of argument, assume that true. Now assume the population of earth at 6 billion. 3 religions, each with 2 billion devotees/followers.
Assume religion B is the 'right' one.
2 billion people will unite with god and live happily ever after. Out of the other 4 billion, a TINY amount would have heard about the other religions and had a chance to convert. Some will, some will not. My lingering doubt is WHAT KIND OF GOD WILL ALLOW A LARGE PORTION OF HIS PEOPLE TO BURN IN HELL WITHOUT EVEN GIVING THEM A CHANCE TO HEAR THE ''TRUTH''. Religion is contradicting its own definition of god.

I don't know if you understand the example, but read it properly and try to get what I'm saying.
And please continue this thread with your input and help me expand my horizons.
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13-06-2012, 08:47 AM
RE: Why religion is bullshit.
(13-06-2012 08:44 AM)icccd.litchi Wrote:  I am new to this website and have only developed my free-thinking side the past couple of years.
I have read the Quran, Bible and Gita as a child and have been attracted to the glamour and fantasies weaved into religion. But now that my brain has actually began to work, I just want to hear what all of you have to say. Your views and your arguments and things you think I should know.

But before that, let me tell you about the flaw of religion. Every religion, in its basic form, stresses on the importance of 'realizing' god, following his teachings, and saving yourself from eternal doom. And each of these religion clearly state that their path is the only path. There can be no other. Now just for the sake of argument, assume that true. Now assume the population of earth at 6 billion. 3 religions, each with 2 billion devotees/followers.
Assume religion B is the 'right' one.
2 billion people will unite with god and live happily ever after. Out of the other 4 billion, a TINY amount would have heard about the other religions and had a chance to convert. Some will, some will not. My lingering doubt is WHAT KIND OF GOD WILL ALLOW A LARGE PORTION OF HIS PEOPLE TO BURN IN HELL WITHOUT EVEN GIVING THEM A CHANCE TO HEAR THE ''TRUTH''. Religion is contradicting its own definition of god.

I don't know if you understand the example, but read it properly and try to get what I'm saying.
And please continue this thread with your input and help me expand my horizons.
Thanks for sharing, but it's worth pointing out that several major religions have no hell concept. That's really more or less the domain of Christianity and Islam.

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13-06-2012, 04:50 PM
RE: Why religion is bullshit.
Try giving a little more direction to the conversation. There's plenty to say, but it's hard to know where to start, haha.

However, I'd recommend researching the history and origins of all these old holy documents. Even the origins of the origins! That's some interesting stuff, and shows you how ideas change and morph throughout time to the point where things are plagiarized without even knowing it! Learning a basic "history of" is where I really started to accept that it's all bullshit.

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13-06-2012, 08:30 PM
RE: Why religion is bullshit.
(13-06-2012 08:44 AM)icccd.litchi Wrote:  I am new to this website and have only developed my free-thinking side the past couple of years.
I have read the Quran, Bible and Gita as a child and have been attracted to the glamour and fantasies weaved into religion. But now that my brain has actually began to work, I just want to hear what all of you have to say. Your views and your arguments and things you think I should know.

But before that, let me tell you about the flaw of religion. Every religion, in its basic form, stresses on the importance of 'realizing' god, following his teachings, and saving yourself from eternal doom. And each of these religion clearly state that their path is the only path. There can be no other. Now just for the sake of argument, assume that true. Now assume the population of earth at 6 billion. 3 religions, each with 2 billion devotees/followers.
Assume religion B is the 'right' one.
2 billion people will unite with god and live happily ever after. Out of the other 4 billion, a TINY amount would have heard about the other religions and had a chance to convert. Some will, some will not. My lingering doubt is WHAT KIND OF GOD WILL ALLOW A LARGE PORTION OF HIS PEOPLE TO BURN IN HELL WITHOUT EVEN GIVING THEM A CHANCE TO HEAR THE ''TRUTH''. Religion is contradicting its own definition of god.

I don't know if you understand the example, but read it properly and try to get what I'm saying.
And please continue this thread with your input and help me expand my horizons.


First of all welcome to the forum.

As for Christianity and Islam;yes there is the belief, among some fundamentalists, in eternal Hellfire for some and Heaven for the good guys, whether a foetus or an octogenarian, which makes no sense at all. The Unitarian Christian Church teaches reincarnation; I imagine some others teach like wise.

As for Hindus and Buddhists ..to my knowledge all Hindus believe in reincarnation, via many bodies, whereby the soul learns to be virtuous(relating to what is a bit obscure) but preferable for people who need some esoteric belief, to the one chance than the bonfire or Paradise notion. Some Buddhists hold the notion of "rebirth" which is more 'delicate'? than moving from womb to womb but very difficult to grasp........good luck in your research Wink
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13-06-2012, 08:37 PM
RE: Why religion is bullshit.
Its because when these religions were created society was very much localized and so the Middle east had no knowledge of say America or perhaps Eastern Asia. So it was easy, it's like if you only knew the people in block, You would be clueless to what the people in the block over were like.
It's easy to convert your neighbors, the block over converts their neighbors and all is well. Until a bridge is built connecting the two neighborhoods, now it's a question of which one is right.

It's ridiculous. It's just more evidence it's man made.
If everyone all around the world without contact with each other had the exact same thing, then they might be onto something. But it's all localized around the people it originated from way back when.
Perhaps if religion started today it would be more unified because of access people have to other people. I mean I'm communicating with you people now and I live across the Pacific Ocean.

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13-06-2012, 10:15 PM (This post was last modified: 13-06-2012 10:22 PM by AmishLatinJew.)
RE: Why religion is bullshit.
Your argument sounds awfully like something Hitchens said repeatedly.

(Paraphrasing Hitchens): With all the religions and sects of religions in the world there are 3 possible outcomes.
1. Either all of them are right, the most unlikely of the three.
2. Either all of them are wrong, the most likely of the three.
3. Only one of them is right, the hardest to prove of the three.
(End of paraphrasing)

Your thought pattern is quite natural on this matter. You say you are new to this track of thought and that is why you are filled with many questions. Questions that in and of themselves are arguments against religion. And this is good. Good because you are seeking truth, or at the very least attempting to seek it. As stated by a few of the responses above mine, it is difficult to know where to start, because if you have no direction or specifics, you end up rolling down a very large mountain of snow, and creating one hell of a snowball that would put Wile E. Coyote to shame.

I will answer 2 of your questions but may I recommend (you don't have to listen to me, do as you like as you should but as you have asked questions...) that you narrow some questions down first. Then take those questions and discover their answers. More than likely this will lead you to many questions as I am sure you have a hundred in your head right now. And make these questions specific. Don't just ask blandly does God exist? First ask, why do certain people believe God exists? That means you have to find out what someone believes and why. Then you can attack that with logic, reasoning, common sense, and all methods of science. Determine the truth of the matter and be able to back it up, or else it is not true and your search continues.

You spoke about the other 4 billion in the world burning in eternity. I will answer on your question of how can a god allow this. As many above have said and I have no doubt you yourself know, not all religions believe in a "bad place." But let's take Christianity and, for the sake of argument, let's say they go it right. There is a split in 2 on this issue in Christianity as to what happens to those who have not "heard" the word. And the bible lists 6 steps needed for salvation, the first and foremost being "hear the word of god".
--- Some christians would argue that jesus rising from the dead was an announcement to the world and hence he instructed all witnesses to go out and preach unto the world. Therefore it is everyone's responsibility to "hear" the word of god. The people that believe this tend to be what we would call "bible literalists." Also known as biblical conservatives. They believe "to hear" meaning literally have you heard about it? This notion is slowly fading away.
--- Other Christians believe that the "grace of god," which is demonstrated and called upon several times in the New Testament, will allow those who were not allowed or afforded chance, to get a "free pass." This same notion is used in why most non-catholic christians believe Children can not be baptized because they can not understand. The greek word for "hear" as used when referencing salvation in the new testament means "to understand." So the idea that children, mentally retarded or challenged, the ill, or strangers to christianity can not be baptized since they can not understand. And if they can not understand as "children" then they are counted innocent as children. Hence they are safeguarded into heaven and saved from hellfire. This notion is held by those who take the Bible in the context of the culture, time, and lingo in which it was written.
--- So while you are right in the questioning, you can see already how some Christians already have an answer for your question. And as long as they stay in lines of the Bible being true, then their argument would seem true or to have some bearing. But of course once you deny that the Bible is true, then their argument is flawed and therefore false. The trick is getting a theist of any kind to leave the logic that the bible or any religious text is completely true. And to do that takes study and leads me to your second question that I will attempt to answer.

"I just want to hear what all of you have to say. Your views and your arguments and things you think I should know." You wrote this and that is a daunting task for there are many people here with many opinions. But I think that most of us would agree that are a few places you can start. And therein lies my answer(s).
--- Almost anyone here. There are a few "sharks" in these waters that just like to have fun, but almost everyone in here have many questions and a lot of experience in answering them. We even have at least one muslim and a couple christians that like to have friendly debates. We are all willing to help. Jump in the forums, weigh in your opinions and match them against or with those of others. Try to call in to a podcast that pertains to you, Seth chooses a variety of topics. Experience and exercise are the biggest key factors to your knowledge.
--- There are a few sources I would point you towards that most of us here have used, read, or watched which have helped understand many facets of different questions, beliefs, and reasons.
--- The first source I would suggest is AronRa's youtube. Specifically he has a series of videos that are easy enough to follow and sound enough to give you many answers you are looking for, or at least get you thinking. The series i reccomend nare his "Foundational Falsehoods of Creationism" which can be found at this link: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1...ature=plcp
--- Next would be Christopher Hitchens God is Not Great. It is often quoted and for some it has dangerously even become their "bible" but I can tell you now if Hitchens heard someone call it that he would most likely scorn them and take it away, ha ha. I do hope you have an extensive vocabulary though. I like to think of myself as fairly educated and well versed. But occasionally i would have to stop in the middle of a paragraph of his, and bust out merriam-webster or dictionary.com, whichever was closer to where I was reading. This book is chalk full of logic and reasoning against God and creation as a whole. Also he filmed a documentary with a theist where they went on a book tour together and were constantly debating about many Christian and atheistic views. It's called Collision. And the christian he was with he remained friends/acquaintances with until the day he died (i believe is name was doug wilson)
--- For a more scientific view on things, I recommend nearly anything written by Richard Dawkins or Daniel Dennet. Again some research may need to be done mid-book. But they are very good-detailed reads and will help you understand many scientific methods, studies, and techniques today.

There are a million other sources that could be sited but this should get you started and keep you busy for a while. And you may have already heard or indulged into them, I don't know.

I would end this long post with 2 notes.
1. Welcome to the forums. There's much to do and many people to do it with. Glad to meet you and hope you enjoy it here and it helps you achieve your goals and answer your questions.
2. It doesn't sound like I need to say this, but I'll beat the dead horse: No matter what evidence, what argument, what logic you may come across, do not take it solely on how it is presented to you. Investigate, research, critique, and compare what you find. Otherwise atheists truly are no better than any religion, that we would solely trust the word of one man and the material he presents.

Good luck to you.

And yet another interesting topic I am not interested in.
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13-06-2012, 11:43 PM
RE: Why religion is bullshit.
I just found that the more I looked at the God hypothesis, the more redundant it seemed in general (especially KC's version,sorry)

Religion, to me, was doomed to failure in the real world as soon as science came into the picture. I will absolutely not say that religion is going to be eradicated, but I think that it will never be taken as serious, and as fundamentalist as it is now.

I fairly like how when you explain it to yourself in the terms of the real world, God is not needed.
First of all, we know how rain works, this is not disputed.

Let me ask you this, if you were religious, why the hell God, any type, would go to such painstaking, and not needed matters, to make rain. He could have EASILY said "Rain."

It's that type, and other types of argument that imply that God is not needed, to run the universe, therefore why do you think he created it? <--This question is one that I hate to use because it still could hold the possibility, but it makes a leap.


In general, thinking logically will make the word bullshit, and religion interchangeable with each other. It's only natural.

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14-06-2012, 07:20 AM
RE: Why religion is bullshit.
(13-06-2012 08:47 AM)lightninlives Wrote:  
(13-06-2012 08:44 AM)icccd.litchi Wrote:  I am new to this website and have only developed my free-thinking side the past couple of years.
I have read the Quran, Bible and Gita as a child and have been attracted to the glamour and fantasies weaved into religion. But now that my brain has actually began to work, I just want to hear what all of you have to say. Your views and your arguments and things you think I should know.

But before that, let me tell you about the flaw of religion. Every religion, in its basic form, stresses on the importance of 'realizing' god, following his teachings, and saving yourself from eternal doom. And each of these religion clearly state that their path is the only path. There can be no other. Now just for the sake of argument, assume that true. Now assume the population of earth at 6 billion. 3 religions, each with 2 billion devotees/followers.
Assume religion B is the 'right' one.
2 billion people will unite with god and live happily ever after. Out of the other 4 billion, a TINY amount would have heard about the other religions and had a chance to convert. Some will, some will not. My lingering doubt is WHAT KIND OF GOD WILL ALLOW A LARGE PORTION OF HIS PEOPLE TO BURN IN HELL WITHOUT EVEN GIVING THEM A CHANCE TO HEAR THE ''TRUTH''. Religion is contradicting its own definition of god.

I don't know if you understand the example, but read it properly and try to get what I'm saying.
And please continue this thread with your input and help me expand my horizons.
Thanks for sharing, but it's worth pointing out that several major religions have no hell concept. That's really more or less the domain of Christianity and Islam.
The "hell" (hades) and "judgement" concept is just one of Christianity's many, many borrowings from Greek mystery religion.
Unless you're prepared to believe that Greek mythology is real, then this concept should have no bearing on the real world, and the people who espouse it are impossibly stupid and sadistic.

The Christ character does mention Gehenna, a valley outside Jerusalem where bodies were burned after sacrifice during the Canaanite period. This was a reference to the Book of Jeremiah. The gospel writers, not being Jews, had no idea what "Gehenna" was, so their reference was purely literary. Translating this as "hell" is one of the grossest mistranslations in the NT.
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14-06-2012, 09:14 AM
RE: Why religion is bullshit.
I've logged on and learnt more in 5 minutes, reading your replies, than I've learnt these past 2 years in college Tongue
My mind is racing with questions. Exciting times.

First off, I would like to start by saying thank you to everyone who replied. Yeah I know that is a very formal statement but it's nice to see that there are people out there willing to spend 5-10 minutes of their day in helping a lost soul like myself. Who said there was no good left in this world?

I will definitely check those sources/links/books that were suggested.

Moving on to the serious stuff. For the sake of continuing this thread, I want to ask all of you two things.

a) Suppose, hypothetically, that you met with someone who knew nothing about you except your first name. And this person was able to accurately name deceased family members, discuss in detail how they died, and describe intimate personal details about your relationship with these people (including people you aren’t consciously thinking about). How would you explain this? In terms of energy flow? In terms of special people who are just engineered that way? I ask because I live in India. Such kind of psychic people exist on every corner.

b) Have you seen the movie 'The Man From Earth'? If not, you SHOULD. Some interesting ideas and a very controversial plot line centered around humanity and religion and all that.
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14-06-2012, 09:24 AM (This post was last modified: 14-06-2012 03:50 PM by Vosur.)
RE: Why religion is bullshit.
Quote:a) Suppose, hypothetically, that you met with someone who knew nothing about you except your first name. And this person was able to accurately name deceased family members, discuss in detail how they died, and describe intimate personal details about your relationship with these people (including people you aren’t consciously thinking about). How would you explain this? In terms of energy flow? In terms of special people who are just engineered that way? I ask because I live in India. Such kind of psychic people exist on every corner.
The only reasonable explanation I can come up with it that this particular person has been stalking me for a long time. Since they can be found on every corner, why don't you ask one of them about my relationship with my deceased family members? I can tell you my name and give you a photo of me. That should suffice, shouldn't it?

Quote:b) Have you seen the movie 'The Man From Earth'? If not, you SHOULD. Some interesting ideas and a very controversial plot line centered around humanity and religion and all that.
Haven't seen it yet. I'll probably check it out tomorrow and share my opinion with you.

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