Why should I be an atheist?
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02-05-2017, 05:32 PM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
(02-05-2017 04:39 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  False beliefs can have positive effects on your life, and true beliefs can have negative effects on your life, and vice versa. It all depends on the actual beliefs, and the actual effects those beliefs have had on your life.

The point is that if you believe in things without good evidence, then you are more likely to believe in things that are not true and have detrimental impact on your life.

(02-05-2017 04:39 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Regardless, here we’re referring to a particular set of beliefs, that revolve around theism vs atheism. There is no net positive effect to be gained by me, by being an atheist.

You. Do. Not. Choose. Your. Beliefs.

Smaller words? Pictures? A video? What will it take to sink in?

(02-05-2017 04:39 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  I’m a biological creature, living in a material world. All of our desires are in pursuit of material gain, whether that be psychological, professional, political, social, etc….

Most of our desires can be traced to a desire for well-being, both for ourselves and to some extent, for those around us. It's the nature of being social animals.

(02-05-2017 04:39 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  If you think you pursue truth for some immaterial purpose, you should be questioning your atheism.

Another one of your bullshit word games. A desire to understand the world around oneself and to verify whether statements are true or not does NOT equate to a search for mystical truth.

(02-05-2017 04:39 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  But lets ask you the question here.

Let's have you defend your apologetics. You made multiple statements about Pascal's Wager that were demonstrably untrue.

Were you lying, ignorant, incompetent or some combination, thereof?

(02-05-2017 04:39 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Why would a biological creature desire truth, if not for some material benefit? Why would evolution select for such a desire, if it wasn't for a material benefit?

A biological creature can desire truth or it can desire a comforting lie. Neither desire can control what the creature truly believes.

A biological creature can profess a true belief or it can profess a false belief in order to gain influence over fellow creatures.

In any event, you are falsely equating desire and belief, while throwing in the red herring of evolution.

(02-05-2017 04:39 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Just like in Pascals Wager. It’s not matter of whether you can actually choose your beliefs, it’s just a matter of treating it as a such, so you can consider the consequences of it.

No. The inherent dishonesty of Pascal's Wager is the profession of a false belief in order to fool the deity, one's fellows and eventually one's self.

Perhaps that inherent dishonesty is why the argument is so appealing to you.

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02-05-2017, 05:58 PM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
(02-05-2017 02:32 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  I'll put it this way. I'm a believer. I can see a variety of positive gains from being a believer, that contribute to both my fulfillment and happiness, in this present life as well. What do I get for becoming an atheist? Nothing. At best positive rep points, and less sneers from unbelievers. If I'm wrong, the truth doesn't even matter. If I'm right, then it does. So why would I choose atheism over theism? There's no reason to.

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“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
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02-05-2017, 05:59 PM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
Tom, you sometimes remind me of Calvin.

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“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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02-05-2017, 06:08 PM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
(02-05-2017 05:11 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Truth is exclusive by nature. If something is true then all beliefs and views that contradict it are false. An atheistic worldview and competing theistic ones can't both be true. And by that very nature, adherents to them hold there is true and the other is false.

Well, I hold your "truth" to be vapid as well as untrue, yet you don't see me trying to outlaw your behavior outside of Constitutional constructs. That's why you Christians garner criticism here and elsewhere: it's not enough for you to have and hold your own beliefs. Far too many of you work assiduously to inflict them on others whether or not those others share them.

I mean, look at you. You're here on an atheist forum, shoving your shit in the faces of people you know find it odiferous ... and yet you insist on doing it.

That's fine. The management here values free speech and that includes your speech too. But you've yet to demonstrate the "truth" of your beliefs, and still you cry.

Cry me a river, kid. If you want an echo chamber, perhaps you shouldn't line your mind with soundproofing.
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02-05-2017, 06:17 PM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
(02-05-2017 05:32 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  The point is that if you believe in things without good evidence, then you are more likely to believe in things that are not true and have detrimental impact on your life.

Nope. According to you the christian worldview is based on no evidence at all, let alone good evidence. Yet there’s no reason to believe that in interviewing candidates for a job that requires drawing evidence based conclusion, particular ones unrelated to one’s religious belief, that religious candidates are less able to draw evidence based conclusions here than there non-religious counterparts. We have very little reason to believe a christian mechanic is any less able to form an evidence based conclusion regarding the problems with your car, than a non-religious one.

In fact you’ll likely be no better than I am, in forming evidence based conclusions, particularly regarding non-religious topics, and ones that are not dependent any specialized learning. In fact if I were to consider any decisions, conclusions I’ve made that were detrimental to my life, not a single one of them would have been different if I didn’t subscribe to a christian worldview.

Quote:Most of our desires can be traced to a desire for well-being, both for ourselves and to some extent, for those around us. It's the nature of being social animals.

Improving one’s well-being, and those around you is a material gain.

Quote:Another one of your bullshit word games. A desire to understand the world around oneself and to verify whether statements are true or not does NOT equate to a search for mystical truth.

As you just stated most of our desires can be traced to a desire for well-being, does your desire for truth fall into this category as well? That your desire for truth is a desire for well-being?

Quote:No. The inherent dishonesty of Pascal's Wager is the profession of a false belief in order to fool the deity, one's fellows and eventually one's self.

Perhaps that inherent dishonesty is why the argument is so appealing to you.

Have you actually read Pensées? Or is your familiarity with Pascal’s Wager based on reading other people’s interpretations of it? And I don’t find Pascal’s Wager a persuasive argument for belief. In fact I don’t find it to be an argument for a belief at all.

So keep your strawman to yourself.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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02-05-2017, 06:30 PM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
(02-05-2017 04:06 PM)adey67 Wrote:  Wow, just wow, proof of weak arguments if you have to resort to such patently absurd comments, what about our well respected theist members here ? No one is forcing any theist to come here and stay. Only a religious nutter like you would come here arrogantly expecting special treatment, and whining when they dont get it,do you suppose atheists who behaved as you do would last five minutes on a christian forum ? No because the arguments are so weak the faithful cannot stand criticism. Asshat.

I don't know why folks like yourself accuse me of whining about how I'm treated here. I don't care how some handful of atheists on an internet forum, treat me, lol. You're too inconsequential to illicit a whine from me.

I'm perfectly fine with the attitudes, personalities, criticisms that you find in abundance here, some positive, some negative. I like it here. But i'm not looking for more drinking buddies, lol.

While folks like yourself may not like my style, or the way I argue a point etc... One thing I do try to avoid is making it personal, though sometimes I fall into that trap. I have nothing personally against you or anyone else here, regardless if you dislike me or not. It's just the internet dude, life goes on.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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02-05-2017, 06:40 PM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
(02-05-2017 06:08 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Cry me a river, kid. If you want an echo chamber, perhaps you shouldn't line your mind with soundproofing.

Or just join a theist forum, surround myself with believers who constantly just stroke my ego, and applaud my arguments, and burn my collection of writings from atheists, and those that hold competing worldviews.

There's nothing more boring than an echo-chamber, but some people prefer it. So to each his own.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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02-05-2017, 07:06 PM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
(02-05-2017 06:40 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(02-05-2017 06:08 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Cry me a river, kid. If you want an echo chamber, perhaps you shouldn't line your mind with soundproofing.

Or just join a theist forum, surround myself with believers who constantly just stroke my ego, and applaud my arguments, and burn my collection of writings from atheists, and those that hold competing worldviews.

There's nothing more boring than an echo-chamber, but some people prefer it. So to each his own.

Then in that case, perhaps you shouldn't be complaining about pushback. Only a fool would think he wasn't going to get it, in your position.
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02-05-2017, 07:14 PM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
(02-05-2017 02:59 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  As I said, if I'm wrong, it literally does not matter.
The fact that you can't think of a reason for it to matter doesn't mean that it doesn't. When one tries to operate inside a system without a clear and factual understanding of how that system works one will ALWAYS get lesser results than if one knew how the system worked.

(02-05-2017 02:59 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  The truth here (Atheism, if I'm wrong) literally has no value.It literally has no material benefit what so ever, beyond less sneers by folks such as yourself, and a few more TTA rep points.
Yaaaaaaaaaaaa....a cursory examination of history shows just how bloody stupid and wrong that is.

(02-05-2017 02:59 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  This is not to say it offer no material value to you, I'm sure it does, I mean why else would you be an atheist. It perhaps makes you feel smart, lets you feel a part of a group of people you want to be a part of, helps you feel protected from other groups you don't like, etc...
Haha no sorry I can't think of anyone else here, on the atheist side anyway, that makes their decisions on what to believe based on some selfish as fuck evaluation
on what they stand to get outta it. That's just you buddy. For myself anyway I lack a belief in god because not one person claiming god exists can offer so much as a coherent agreed upon definition of a god let alone evidence.

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02-05-2017, 07:17 PM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
(01-05-2017 08:13 PM)Zombocalypse Wrote:  As a Christian, I believe in an afterlife. But not in the traditional sense. I believe, as do many others, that we don't immediately go to our eternal destination (heaven or hell) when we die. Rather, we sleep in the grave until the so-called resurrection.

I believe that Jesus died for our sins.

I believe that God exists, but I guess that's a given...

What do you think?

No to all of the above. I believe that death is final and that resurrection is impossible; I do not believe that bad behaviour is transferable; and I see all gods as human-generated archetypes rather than as actual beings with supernatural powers.

I'm sorry, but your beliefs are much too silly to take seriously. Got anything else we can discuss?
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